All things Dundee FC

[RossDee01]

We still have shite like Danny Williams and James Vincent on the books.

Bring back Hartley tho he was class.

[Bigmouth Strikes Again]

43 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

Normally I have fun putting the thread up thinking about the different candidates. I shudder to think of the names available right now.

[AnAnInginAneAnA]

2 minutes ago, Bigmouth Strikes Again said:

 

[Ludo*1]

Just now, RossDee01 said:

We are absolutely not worse than we were when Hartley left. If you genuinely think that then it proves my point about the short memories.

I get that we were pish today but up until the last 2 games we had been playing well. Sacking a manager because of 2 games at this stage of the season is utterly ridiculous.

We absolutely are barring the final few weeks.

I'd be sacking a manager because we've picked up 8 points out of 36.  2 wins this season. 0 clean sheets. A team that doesn't look like it's gonna score in open play. A team that's conceded more than any other team in the league. A team that's lost 4 on the trot. A team that's lost at home without a fight against County, Hamilton and Motherwell.

It's insipid. And it's a myth that we've had plenty of good performances, we've had a handful.

[RossDee01]

I couldn't care less if people agree with me or not. Been here long enough to not give a f**k.
I want my team to win. I don't care how we do it.
Today was embarrassing.
11 games and not 1 clean sheet.

Mccann how much time do give him ? People wanted holt dropped today. Worked out well.

Onwards and upwards but for me without Mccann

Pretty sure Holt wasn't dropped but rather injured. Missed his a lot. Defence was a shambles today, in fact everyone was. Only player close to pass marks for me today was McGowan and funnily enough Moussa even looked decent when he came on compared to everyone else.

It's been a horrendous week but I'm not in the knee-jerking camp yet. I still think Neil will get things right. Hopefully I'm right.

[LiamDFC]

Fucking hell guys.

Today was very, very shit but we're definitely not worse than last season. Not yet, anyway. Short memories on show tonight; last season was some of the worst football I've ever seen played at Dens. Yes, we are dire but last year was absolutely putrid football. 

IMO we're one good striker away from a decent side. Decent young defence (the best we've had in years IMO) and a decent midfield. Shite up top, but that's exactly the same as last year. Is Moussa any better or worse than that fucking Yordi clown? Both awful. Kamara does my fucking head in but if anyone is actually saying this squad is worse than Williams, Hateley et al then you need your brain looked at.

Seriously, though. Think we need to all calm down and look at it objectively. Terrible run with some stupid decisions. Will he listen to people and make the required switches? Hartley sure as f**k didn't. 

Just my opinion but I'd give him until the late December run-in. 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

The board need to take a lot of blame as well - took the money for Hemmings/Stewart and then haven't managed to get even a semi-decent striker.

[RossDee01]

Fucking hell guys.
Today was very, very shit but we're definitely not worse than last season. Not yet, anyway. Short memories on show tonight; last season was some of the worst football I've ever seen played at Dens. Yes, we are dire but last year was absolutely putrid football. 
IMO we're one good striker away from a decent side. Decent young defence (the best we've had in years IMO) and a decent midfield. Shite up top, but that's exactly the same as last year. Is Moussa any better or worse than that fucking Yordi clown? Both awful. Kamara does my fucking head in but if anyone is actually saying this squad is worse than Williams, Hateley et al then you need your brain looked at.
Seriously, though. Think we need to all calm down and look at it objectively. Terrible run with some stupid decisions. Will he listen to people and make the required switches? Hartley sure as f**k didn't. 
Just my opinion but I'd give him until the late December run-in. 

Spot on.

[Shadow Play]

Yes the defence was bad today.  Yes the defence doesn’t do clean sheets but.....

We have strikers that can’t score.  Kerr especially put a few good crosses into the box and Haber, AJ and Moussa did next to nothing with them.  Add in the fact not one  midfielder has scored a single goal in the league and just about any defence in the country would be under pressure.

Edited October 28, 2017 by Shadow Play

[RossDee01]

The board need to take a lot of blame as well - took the money for Hemmings/Stewart and then haven't managed to get even a semi-decent striker.

Not sure about that one - the managers have both been backed to the hilt. It's not the boards job to recruit a striker, that's what the manager is for.

[Shadow Play]

Just now, G_Man1985 said:

So we have a decent defence and that's it , is that what you are saying ? Who will score more than say 10 goals this season? 11 new boys brought in. Will we get any more in or is this what we have to work with ?

No I think Kamara is a very good player.  Spence looks reasonably promising.  Mcgowan gives a bit of drive and determination.  The trouble is we will be lucky if they get 10 league goals between them all season.  

That’s OK if you have a couple of strikers that will score 15 - 20 league goals each in a season.  Seeing as we don’t have anything like that we need at least one midfielder that knows how to score on a regular basis.

[Ludo*1]

McCann has played 19 different players in the games against Motherwell and Hamilton. Wow.

[srw]

32 minutes ago, LiamDFC said:

Today was very, very shit but we're definitely not worse than last season. 

Decent young defence (the best we've had in years IMO)

We have less points than we did last season at the same stage, so statistically speaking, we are worse.

We have conceded the most goals in the league, thats not decent, its not even bad, its utterly pathetic.

[Shadow Play]

1 minute ago, G_Man1985 said:

 

And let's be honest are we going to get this midfielder? Allan meant to be the answer ?
And do you predict McCann is our saviour and we will be top6? After all that's the budget he was given. The board have been very generous to him.

 

Probably not.  Not sure Allan is much more than a better,  more experienced version of Spence.

I’m probably in a minority but I do think McCann can turn things around.

Still too early to panic.  Let’s see if he learns from some of the mistakes he’s made.

 

[srw]

18 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

 

Have you heard mccann interview tonight ? He sees no issue about being bottom and won't be changing our style of play. So far it's led us to bottom

So again will ask. How long do we give mccann? Until end of season like Hartley. A one season wonder mccann is going to be ?
Only yourself and Ross see a different point of view regarding McCann .

3 points next week against Hibernian?

 

Its the footballing equivalent of Stockholm Syndrome again.

 

[Spikethedee]

Not having to every game this season, I can only comment on what I've seen at Dens and on TV, but the only ones of McCann's signings that can be considered a success at this stage are Kamara and Hendry. Spence has been ok. Deacon, Meekings & AJLS may have something, maybe. Allan may be worth it if he's ever fit. Wolters & Moussa are hopeless. Spanish Jon has had 20-odd minute and did ok. Parish hasn't played at all. Not really a brilliant success rate - 2 good, 1 ok and a pile of nothing better than we had last season means we are Championship-bound.

[Chewing Taffies]

Everyone seems to think McCann is fine because he is great in interviews. He may be able to bullshit his way out these defeats but the fact is we are bottom of the league. We are below teams who are sacking managers. McCann is fucking useless.

[LiamDFC]

37 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

Have you heard mccann interview tonight ? He sees no issue about being bottom and won't be changing our style of play. So far it's led us to bottom

So again will ask. How long do we give mccann? Until end of season like Hartley. A one season wonder mccann is going to be ?
Only yourself and Ross see a different point of view regarding McCann .

3 points next week against Hibernian?

 

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I never said I'm happy with our awful results or the team selections. What I've (quite clearly) said is that we're not as bad as last year. We are still shit, but last season was horrific.

Also I've already answered your penultimate question (if you were asking me); I said I'd give him until late December.

19 minutes ago, srw said:

We have less points than we did last season at the same stage, so statistically speaking, we are worse.

We have conceded the most goals in the league, thats not decent, its not even bad, its utterly pathetic.

I agree with that. Can't argue with numbers, although I'd like to propose an alternative view. The other teams have strengthened and improved while we've taken baby-steps forward. We've also lost really shit teams like ICT and St Mirren in recent years, replaced with better teams like Rangers and Hibs. I'm not making excuses but we got off with murder last season IMO. We should have been relegated the way we were playing — we were just lucky there were worse teams than us. We don't have that luxury this season.

The point I've been making is that I don't think we're as bad as last year. In contrast to that, we've a harder league against better teams. Terrible run of form/luck; nothing is going our way. It happens in football. It's been a shitstorm of a season so far, yet despite this, I'm still not as nervous as I was last year under Hartley.

He's the manager and he needs to be allowed a chance to fix his mistakes. If he's still fucking up by December then punt him and move on. That's my view.

ETA: if anyone expected a top-6 finish then there's no point even arguing the point. We are not a top 6 team and we won't be for a few seasons.

Edited October 28, 2017 by LiamDFC

[happyaccie]

14 minutes ago, LiamDFC said:

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. I never said I'm happy with our awful results or the team selections. What I've (quite clearly) said is that we're not as bad as last year. We are still shit, but last season was horrific.

Also I've already answered your penultimate question (if you were asking me); I said I'd give him until late December.

I agree with that. Can't argue with numbers, although I'd like to propose an alternative view. The other teams have strengthened and improved  while we've taken baby-steps forward. We've also lost really shit teams like ICT and St Mirren in recent years, replaced with better teams like Rangers and Hibs. I'm not making excuses but we got off with murder last season IMO. We should have been relegated the way we were playing — we were just lucky there were worse teams than us. We don't have that luxury this season.

The point I've been making is that I don't think we're as bad as last year. In contrast to that, we've a harder league against better teams. Terrible run of form/luck; nothing is going our way. It happens in football. It's been a shitstorm of a season so far, yet despite this, I'm still not as nervous as I was last year under Hartley.

He's the manager and he needs to be allowed a chance to fix his mistakes. If he's still fucking up by December then punt him and move on. That's my view.

ETA: if anyone expected a top-6 finish then there's no point even arguing the point. We are not a top 6 team and we won't be for a few seasons.

County lost the guy who literally single handed retained their SPL status , we brought in players to replace those who had left, where have we strengthened ? 

[Spikethedee]

What worries me about changing manager is that Ross County and Killie got really experienced managers with decent pedigrees. Last time, we picked a former TV pundit (actually, he wasn't even a former pundit at that point) with a season (?) of experience as an Assistant Manager in the third tier.

If we're not going to give McCann time, then we can't afford to take another punt on an inexperienced manager.