All things Dundee FC

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, Shadow Play said:

Easy way out to answer like you have.  

If you genuinely don’t care why did you go on a Dundee thread and make your original comment?

It was a joke, quite obviously. 

[kevthedee]

Saturday should be declared wear a ginger wig to the game day in support of Murray.

[Fifespud]

Yasss easy sorted for me then :-)

Are you ginger minger too?

[Fifespud]

Yasss easy sorted for me then :-)

Are you Simon Murray?

[Dariusz]

Nelms to come out and say we got 1.2m for Bain and f**k all for Hendry. GIRUY Wigan,

[capt_oats]

From an outsiders point of view the whole thing looks like a bit of a shitshow.

You've lost Hendry, gained cash but because of timing can't spend it to recruit anyone other than free agents, you've lost Allan who seemed to be the player who could turn games for you and gained Simon Murray (who if nothing else is better than Moussa). Bain clearly doesn't count as he wasn't even at the club and you're doing just fine with Parish in goals.

As others have said though the triangle loan move was largely out your hands as soon as it became clear Celtic were after a 3rd choice 'keeper and saw Bain as a cheap option who could become available. I might be miles out here but were there not rumours at the start of the season that Allan had fallen out with McCann? If it turns out that Allan's decided he's unhappy and would rather be at Easter Road then given Celtic were presumably already in discussions about Hendry you can see how it all went into motion. If the circumstances aren't entirely in your control then you're really just looking to make the best you can from it.

Dundee have got a player off Hibs and a wedge of cash for their inconvenience.

The only real criticism I'd say you could have is succession planning. Maybe that's down to naivety on McCann and/or Nelms' part IDK.  Did McCann have targets lined up etc or was he simply hanging on to the idea that Hendry would still be a Dundee player (not unlike Hartley with Hemmings and Stewart).

Everyone's known about Celtic's interest in Hendry and unlike Carson with us he's a player Celtic actually wanted rather than someone to fill a jersey. It's a shite thing to say but realistically if they genuinely want the player then chances are they'll get him.

As far as I can see Dundee had two positions either a) accept he's leaving and get a deal done perhaps at a more modest fee which allows adequate time to recruit replacements and get those deals done or b) you play "hardball" and try to up the fee to the max potential but run the risk of not being able to conclude the deal in time that allows you time. I've seen quite a few comments from Dees who were in favour of exactly that. Which is fine but I'd say you probably have to acknowledge that the outcome is one of the risks of holding out.

You could of course have told them to ram it but that would have run the risk of having an unhappy player and missing out on what has turned out to be a club record fee.

We were in a similar position with Marvin Johnson a couple of seasons back to the point where he handed in a transfer request and we had to make the best deal we could but because of the timing we weren't able to bring in his replacement (Elliot Frear) in time and the result was the onset of a car crash of a season. Both Alan Burrows and Stephen Robinson admitted that it was a mistake we'd learned from and I'd guess went some way to us telling Celtic to do one when it came to their approach for Carson (which we were able to do because we'd already done enough transfer business this year to ensure we're comfortable ie: Heneghan, Moult plus Marvin Johnson's sell on %).

One thing that I don't really get is the whole "he should have been loaned back", obviously I get why it's preferable from Dundee's point of view but given Celtic were/are paying £1.5m for his services then it's surely not unreasonable to thing that they might want to keep him and make him available to play for them. I don't really see that the circumstances between Hendry and Morgan are that similar. Certainly not in the sense that "because they did that for St Mirren they should do that for Dundee".

[daftydee]

From an outsiders point of view the whole thing looks like a bit of a shitshow.
You've lost Hendry, gained cash but because of timing can't spend it to recruit anyone other than free agents, you've lost Allan who seemed to be the player who could turn games for you and gained Simon Murray (who if nothing else is better than Moussa). Bain clearly doesn't count as he wasn't even at the club and you're doing just fine with Parish in goals.
As others have said though the triangle loan move was largely out your hands as soon as it became clear Celtic were after a 3rd choice 'keeper and saw Bain as a cheap option who could become available. I might be miles out here but were there not rumours at the start of the season that Allan had fallen out with McCann? If it turns out that Allan's decided he's unhappy and would rather be at Easter Road then given Celtic were presumably already in discussions about Hendry you can see how it all went into motion. If the circumstances aren't entirely in your control then you're really just looking to make the best you can from it.
Dundee have got a player off Hibs and a wedge of cash for their inconvenience.
The only real criticism I'd say you could have is succession planning. Maybe that's down to naivety on McCann and/or Nelms' part IDK.  Did McCann have targets lined up etc or was he simply hanging on to the idea that Hendry would still be a Dundee player (not unlike Hartley with Hemmings and Stewart).
Everyone's known about Celtic's interest in Hendry and unlike Carson with us he's a player Celtic actually wanted rather than someone to fill a jersey. It's a shite thing to say but realistically if they genuinely want the player then chances are they'll get him.
As far as I can see Dundee had two positions either a) accept he's leaving and get a deal done perhaps at a more modest fee which allows adequate time to recruit replacements and get those deals done or b) you play "hardball" and try to up the fee to the max potential but run the risk of not being able to conclude the deal in time that allows you time. I've seen quite a few comments from Dees who were in favour of exactly that. Which is fine but I'd say you probably have to acknowledge that the outcome is one of the risks of holding out.
You could of course have told them to ram it but that would have run the risk of having an unhappy player and missing out on what has turned out to be a club record fee.
We were in a similar position with Marvin Johnson a couple of seasons back to the point where he handed in a transfer request and we had to make the best deal we could but because of the timing we weren't able to bring in his replacement (Elliot Frear) in time and the result was the onset of a car crash of a season. Both Alan Burrows and Stephen Robinson admitted that it was a mistake we'd learned from and I'd guess went some way to us telling Celtic to do one when it came to their approach for Carson (which we were able to do because we'd already done enough transfer business this year to ensure we're comfortable ie: Heneghan, Moult plus Marvin Johnson's sell on %).
One thing that I don't really get is the whole "he should have been loaned back", obviously I get why it's preferable from Dundee's point of view but given Celtic were/are paying £1.5m for his services then it's surely not unreasonable to thing that they might want to keep him and make him available to play for them. I don't really see that the circumstances between Hendry and Morgan are that similar. Certainly not in the sense that "because they did that for St Mirren they should do that for Dundee".

Don't think anyone said they should loan him back but when celtics interest in JH first started thy were ok for CH's

[MarbellaDEE]

Can't help but feel we have been a bit shafted but it's done now and we have to make the best of it. Getting on Murrays back because you are upset at something he did in a derby while playing for them isn't going to help anyone. He has been signed to score the goals we will need to keep us in the league, the sooner everyone gets on board with that then the better it will be for everyone. I hope he can do the job we need. 

[Forest of Dean]

45 minutes ago, MarbellaDEE said:

Can't help but feel we have been a bit shafted but it's done now and we have to make the best of it. Getting on Murrays back because you are upset at something he did in a derby while playing for them isn't going to help anyone. He has been signed to score the goals we will need to keep us in the league, the sooner everyone gets on board with that then the better it will be for everyone. I hope he can do the job we need. 

It could work out alright for you - everyone can see that a striker is what you needed.

Can't see anyone except County going down anyway.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What a day. Hibs lose their top 2 strikers and an ideal back up keeper and gain a very creative if slightly inconsistent midfielder - a position they are well covered in, particularly as they have hung on to McGinn. Celtic get a keeper in as back up whose biggest issue is temperament and who may have to come on in front of 60000 fans who don’t really fancy him and a young, inexperienced centre half who has barely played 50 games, albeit with obvious attributes. We lose our most creative player and our best defender and gain a striker half the fans completely detest. Is someone having a laugh, is this a dream?

Looking forward to when Bain tries to have a go at the Green Brigade - they'll probably kneecap him.

[harry94]

57 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

From an outsiders point of view the whole thing looks like a bit of a shitshow.

You've lost Hendry, gained cash but because of timing can't spend it to recruit anyone other than free agents, you've lost Allan who seemed to be the player who could turn games for you and gained Simon Murray (who if nothing else is better than Moussa). Bain clearly doesn't count as he wasn't even at the club and you're doing just fine with Parish in goals.

As others have said though the triangle loan move was largely out your hands as soon as it became clear Celtic were after a 3rd choice 'keeper and saw Bain as a cheap option who could become available. I might be miles out here but were there not rumours at the start of the season that Allan had fallen out with McCann? If it turns out that Allan's decided he's unhappy and would rather be at Easter Road then given Celtic were presumably already in discussions about Hendry you can see how it all went into motion. If the circumstances aren't entirely in your control then you're really just looking to make the best you can from it.

Dundee have got a player off Hibs and a wedge of cash for their inconvenience.

The only real criticism I'd say you could have is succession planning. Maybe that's down to naivety on McCann and/or Nelms' part IDK.  Did McCann have targets lined up etc or was he simply hanging on to the idea that Hendry would still be a Dundee player (not unlike Hartley with Hemmings and Stewart).

Everyone's known about Celtic's interest in Hendry and unlike Carson with us he's a player Celtic actually wanted rather than someone to fill a jersey. It's a shite thing to say but realistically if they genuinely want the player then chances are they'll get him.

As far as I can see Dundee had two positions either a) accept he's leaving and get a deal done perhaps at a more modest fee which allows adequate time to recruit replacements and get those deals done or b) you play "hardball" and try to up the fee to the max potential but run the risk of not being able to conclude the deal in time that allows you time. I've seen quite a few comments from Dees who were in favour of exactly that. Which is fine but I'd say you probably have to acknowledge that the outcome is one of the risks of holding out.

You could of course have told them to ram it but that would have run the risk of having an unhappy player and missing out on what has turned out to be a club record fee.

We were in a similar position with Marvin Johnson a couple of seasons back to the point where he handed in a transfer request and we had to make the best deal we could but because of the timing we weren't able to bring in his replacement (Elliot Frear) in time and the result was the onset of a car crash of a season. Both Alan Burrows and Stephen Robinson admitted that it was a mistake we'd learned from and I'd guess went some way to us telling Celtic to do one when it came to their approach for Carson (which we were able to do because we'd already done enough transfer business this year to ensure we're comfortable ie: Heneghan, Moult plus Marvin Johnson's sell on %).

One thing that I don't really get is the whole "he should have been loaned back", obviously I get why it's preferable from Dundee's point of view but given Celtic were/are paying £1.5m for his services then it's surely not unreasonable to thing that they might want to keep him and make him available to play for them. I don't really see that the circumstances between Hendry and Morgan are that similar. Certainly not in the sense that "because they did that for St Mirren they should do that for Dundee".

I think youre perspective is pretty fair. The succession planning was the issue for me.  Celtic's intentions did change it would appear so I think that's where the problem lies - they weren't as urgent until they realised their new signing may be a bit of a sick note.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Well, i stick by my words, won't be back again this season.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Hendry deal but the Allan, Bain and Murray fiasco is a fucking joke.
I will not support Murray in Dark Blue and will return when he's out the door.
Thank you and adios for now.

Good - now shut the door on the way out.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm perhaps looking too much into things, but from Murray's interview on the website, he seems about as thrilled as the Dundee support to be here.

Rightly or wrongly, he's gonna be absolutely crucified for tiny mistakes due to his past behaviour. It's not like he has the ability of Tommy Coyne (Not that he was a wind up merchant) to win the fans over.

People say that hard work wins the Dundee crowd over. I don't think it does. Dundee fans much prefer a mercurial talent that turns it on when he can be bothered rather than good old fashioned hard work (Nemsadze, Ggh, Allan, Caballero).

He's gonna have a job winning the crowd over and even if he starts flying, he'll still not have the full support behind him (I'm not saying this is right, just how I think it will pan out).

Perhaps reading too much into it but when he mentioned that he had lots of friends in the Derry and the BC - I thought that comment could be interpreted two ways. Obviously he has Dee mates - but he also knows that he's wound quite a few people up.

He'd embraced the DAB. Until yesterday, I don't think he ever envisioned himself in a Dundee top.

I think you and I were watching different videos - what I saw was perhaps nervousness and embarrassment due to his previous behaviour as a DAB player.

[doctor feelgood]

.......and cue "Hendry deserves a Scotland call up says Rodgers"

[jagfox]

Jack Hendry has grossed in the region of £1-1,75million in transfer fees after being let go by Yinited for f**k all.

There's always a silver lining 

[Ludo*1]

According to the Wigan Post, The Dee are now due the English League One side 30% to 40% of the undisclosed fee, which is believed to be around £1.5m.

This a wind up?

Potentially why we received a fee for the Bain loan deal.

We are Dundee FC, of course we received a massive fee for Bain's loan to Celtic to negate the amount we have to pay to Wigan for Hendry.

 

[Girth]

4 hours ago, RossDee01 said:

We got money for Bain!

Did we? Ace! Sorry I've been in Slough where the internet is still a recent invention.

[capt_oats]

2 hours ago, daftydee said:

Don't think anyone said they should loan him back but when celtics interest in JH first started thy were ok for CH's

If you head over to TDB forum there are plenty of shouts about how the only way the deal should have been signed off on was if Dundee got him back for the rest of the season.

I've no idea if this is a wind up or genuine but either way this is 100% one of my favourite takes that I've read.

Quote

There appears to be a case of double standards here by Celtic. 

They signed Lewis Morgan from St Mirren earlier in January for £300k and immediately loaned him back to St Mirren for the rest of this season yet Jack Hendry is not being loaned back to Dundee for the remainder of this season.

I suspect that Celtic are keen for St Mirren another football club in the Greater Glasgow area to be promoted to the Premier League at the end of this season. 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by capt_oats

[Netan Sansara]

Just now, capt_oats said:

If you head over to TDB forum there are plenty of shouts about how the only way the deal should have been signed off on was if Dundee got him back for the rest of the season.

I've no idea if this is a wind up or genuine but either way this is 100% one of my favourite takes that I've read.

 

Quite enjoyed the west coast conspiracy angle to it all. Like all single club forums it does have its fair share of roasters I believe. 

[harry94]

4 minutes ago, G_Man1985 said:

So we still had to pay wigan when we got this record fee that includes add ons ?
Nae wonder we don't know what we got, probably got about a fiver

The fee doesn't include the add ons. It was reported as an undisclosed record fee PLUS add ons.

The speculation is that the money for Bain's loan fee was a few hundred grand to keep from Wigan which hopefully has us over a million.