Which P & B yes voter is the most seething?

[pandarilla]

Whats in it for me is whatever I make of it. Not asking for any help from anyone. Its down to me to take care of my own family. I'm a contributor to society. I pay my taxes, a lot of which will provide a social security safety net for people that are struggling to get jobs. A lot of it will pay for the NHS which I don't use very often but realise the importance of as I'll probably need it more as I get older. If tax was raised a bit because there wasn't enough money in that particular pot to help people that need help then so be it. What i have left after that I've earned so can spend how i like. Not buying into any socialist utopia. Go ask the people of Eastern Europe how well socialism worked for them.

This is an interesting post.

I pretty much agree with it even though it was used as an opposite argument to what I posted.

Your post suggests a belief in a fairly social democratic way of running the country - where everyone contributes for the stuff that we all need at some point (welfare safety net, NHS, emergency services etc.)

The neoliberal policies of the last 30 years have seen massive parts of the country ghettoised at the same time as private companies were invited in to make as much profit as they could out of public services. PFI funding is the perfect example. How on earth can that be seen as a good thing and yet we have it across the country in terms of hospital and school buildings. Massive corporations making millions out of our government - our taxes.

This system has also left us with an eye-watering level of debt - billion upon billions of pounds.

Like Renton pointed out - you seem to confuse socialism and communism - which is a pretty big error (but one which for example Americans make on a very regular basis).

[CowdenConvert]

Like Renton pointed out - you seem to confuse socialism and communism - which is a pretty big error (but one which for example Americans make on a very regular basis).

communism is the purest form of socialism where everyone is supposedly working for the common good and everything is state owned. I'm sure thats what Marx and Lenin dreamed of anyway. It doesn't stop human nature of people wanting to better themselves.

[BerwickMad]

I'm not sure I'd hold up Belgium as an example of a united country with stable governance tbh...

Or Denmark where a far right party just won the European Election.

[pandarilla]

communism is the purest form of socialism where everyone is supposedly working for the common good and everything is state owned. I'm sure thats what Marx and Lenin dreamed of anyway. It doesn't stop human nature of people wanting to better themselves.

I know.

No-one on the Yes side was pushing for anything like communism.

It was about a fairer version of capitalism - because the current version is horribly fucked up.

[H_B]

It's seems like quite a few of the Yes posters on here who have disappeared were really just part of the campaign. Probably sent here from organised meetings or separatist forums to spread propaganda. They wouldn't know a football if it smacked them in the face. I'd assume this was the same for the Facebook pages like 'Berwick Rangers fans for Scottish independence'. It was never a Berwick fan.

It would be interesting to find out how many people these plants influenced.

I think there's a few who will slither back after they reckon enough time has passed since their giving it big licks in the weeks before the vote will be forgotten.

The .. 'Just you wait... only (insert number of days here) til freeeedom..' and 'tick tock' types.

It was always going to be utter humiliation for them. Some have tried to brazen it out.. others have scarpered in shame.

[CowdenConvert]

I know.

No-one on the Yes side was pushing for anything like communism.

It was about a fairer version of capitalism - because the current version is horribly fucked up.

The current system isn't perfect. To use one of your examples. Although introduced under Major, i think, PFI expanded massively under the last left-wing government in this country. It was hardly used until Blair took office, effectively spending cash he didn't have so he could tell everyone what wonderful things he was doing to make the country a better place. Successive left-wing governments in this country have probably started out with the ideal of making the country a fairer place but have then succeeded to wreck the finances and run up billions of debt. I don't trust them. Never will. One of the main reasons i wouldn't want independence is we'd end up with a left wing government. With their track record? Really?

[Banterous]

The current system isn't perfect. To use one of your examples. Although introduced under Major, i think, PFI expanded massively under the last left-wing government in this country. It was hardly used until Blair took office, effectively spending cash he didn't have so he could tell everyone what wonderful things he was doing to make the country a better place. Successive left-wing governments in this country have probably started out with the ideal of making the country a fairer place but have then succeeded to wreck the finances and run up billions of debt. I don't trust them. Never will. One of the main reasons i wouldn't want independence is we'd end up with a left wing government. With their track record? Really?

He hasn't a clue what he's talking about and I guarantee he'll be googling to try and put together a response. Looking forward to this btw

[bowmore]

You have a reputation of -10 on this forum - which you joined a couple of weeks ago to spout you British nationalist nonsense.

Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever?

Or are you just a wee boy?

If you're a troll then fair enough but I always feel that must be an unsatisfying use of people's time.

Yeh but you stink.

And you're ugly <raspberry>

[Confidemus]

I think there's a few who will slither back after they reckon enough time has passed since their giving it big licks in the weeks before the vote will be forgotten.

The .. 'Just you wait... only (insert number of days here) til freeeedom..' and 'tick tock' types.

It was always going to be utter humiliation for them. Some have tried to brazen it out.. others have scarpered in shame.

And still you seethe.

[BerwickMad]

I think there's a few who will slither back after they reckon enough time has passed since their giving it big licks in the weeks before the vote will be forgotten.

The .. 'Just you wait... only (insert number of days here) til freeeedom..' and 'tick tock' types.

It was always going to be utter humiliation for them. Some have tried to brazen it out.. others have scarpered in shame.

I feel sorry for a lot of the younger Yes voters in a way. This is probably their first experience of politics that means something and they were swept along in a wave of misguided positivity by nationalist con-men/women and twisted propaganda websites like Wings Over Scotland.

Hopefully some of the more clued up ones stay interested in politics and do their research. If they do that properly, they will drift away from nationalism. Obviously, the nationalists will be trying to create a victim mentality to keep them onside, so the next few years will be interesting.

[MassiveFanDan]

I'm not sure I'd hold up Belgium as an example of a united country with stable governance tbh...

Fair point, they have their issues with unification too. I mainly meant economic stability though. Belgium spent a year and a half without an elected government, but seemed to suffer no obvious economic ill-effects from it. It was a bizarre situation, but didn't seem to hit the populace in their pockets.

Unlike the UK, they haven't recently held a referendum confirming that 45% of the electorate in one of their constituent "regions" want to bugger off.

[H_B]

I feel sorry for a lot of the younger Yes voters in a way. This is probably their first experience of politics that means something and they were swept along in a wave of misguided positivity by nationalist con-men/women and twisted propaganda websites like Wings Over Scotland.

Hopefully some of the more clued up ones stay interested in politics and do their research. If they do that properly, they will drift away from nationalism. Obviously, the nationalists will be trying to create a victim mentality to keep them onside, so the next few years will be interesting.

I think a few of them have admitted they genuinely thought what they read on here was in any way relevant to the country at large.

You could almost see the blinking dazed confusion after the landslide defeat.

Bbbbbbbut the Facebook likes we had.... and... sniff.. the car stickers and P and B poll... wahh.. why did we lose?

[SodjesSixteenIncher]

There was about 4 posters who continually bleated on about Yes winning this. Most Yes voters were in the same camp as me, i.e. "want it to happen but probably won't".

Can totally understand why the No voters keep banging on about this like its some kind of football game though. Gloating in lieu of any arguments was the entire No voter playbook before the vote and now that it's abundantly clear that this isn't going away, they may as well continue with the same pish.

[H_B]

There was about 4 posters who continually bleated on about Yes winning this. Most Yes voters were in the same camp as me, i.e. "want it to happen but probably won't

That is quite clearly utter lies.

Standard for one of your contributions tbf.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I know.

No-one on the Yes side was pushing for anything like communism.

It was about a fairer version of capitalism - because the current version is horribly fucked up.

The Trotskyite left in RIC probably have a different socialist vision of Scotland than you or I might have.

Whilst its simplistic message might appeal to some in areas of social deprivation it's not a message that I think would appeal to the wider Scottish electorate.

[Confidemus]

I feel sorry for a lot of the younger Yes voters in a way. This is probably their first experience of politics that means something and they were swept along in a wave of misguided positivity by nationalist con-men/women and twisted propaganda websites like Wings Over Scotland.

Whereas young No voters were in no way misguided by 36 out of 37 newspapers and the entire broadcast media spewing forth misleading propaganda.

[BerwickMad]

Whereas young No voters were in no way misguided by 36 out of 37 newspapers and the entire broadcast media spewing forth misleading propaganda.

Granted, a lot of the media came down on the No side, but it wasn't as biased as people like you suggest. You complain of bias at anything drifting away from the bollocks spouted in your propaganda sites.

Young people don't read newspapers like they used to anyway. They will sit on the internet and debate over social media more than they will ever read a newspaper or watch the news on tele. And the Yes side dominated social media via bombarding it with propaganda.

[Confidemus]

Granted, a lot of the media came down on the No side, but it wasn't as biased as people like you suggest. You complain of bias at anything drifting away from the bollocks spouted in your propaganda sites.

Young people don't read newspapers like they used to anyway. They will sit on the internet and debate over social media more than they will ever read a newspaper or watch the news on tele. And the Yes side dominated social media via bombarding it with propaganda.

I think if you asked any right minded, fair person if they were more likely to find "the truth", whatever that may be either in a newspaper or on soclal media, you'd be hard pressed to find one person saying "newspapers".

The sad fact is that what actually swung this vote was old people being lied to about their pensions. Exhibits A & B:

[BerwickMad]

I think if you asked any right minded, fair person if they were more likely to find "the truth", whatever that may be either in a newspaper or on soclal media, you'd be hard pressed to find one person saying "newspapers".

The sad fact is that what actually swung this vote was old people being lied to about their pensions. Exhibits A & B:

No right minded person would give you an answer to that. You're unlikely to find 'the truth' on either. Most right minded people can read around a subject and not fall for propaganda or bias.

People like you and some other nationalists, pick a position at the start then look for articles and propaganda to suit your pre-decided stance. You don't read widely then come to a conclusion. You can tell this because you're so blinkered.

It is however true that there were pros and cons on both sides, like with most issues. I doubt you would ever admit this.

[H_B]

The Trotskyite left in RIC probably have a different socialist vision of Scotland than you or I might have.

Whilst its simplistic message might appeal to some in areas of social deprivation it's not a message that I think would appeal to the wider Scottish electorate.

One of the most bizarre of the referendum campaign claims was 'end Tory rule forever' in Scotland.

Really? You can guarantee us election results for ever?