pandarilla Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 As someone who has lived in Scotland and England for equal parts of my adult life, I have experienced both sides of this 'anti scottish' and 'anti english' viewpoints so here is my tuppence. Firstly, I think so much of this is confused and mixed up with sporting rivalry. Having a sporting rivalry is a healthy thing for the most part, and 90% of anti Englishness I hear in Scotland is normally around sport. However the people of England/media often assume this sporting rivalry stems from a deep hatred of English people. Whilst historically there may be some truth in this, it isn't the case anymore. I genuinely haven't met a single person who genuinely hates the English just for being English! Likewise there is no hatred of Scottish people in England. The sporting rivalry isn't there and the majority of people either want to see Scotland do well in sport or they don't care one way or the other. The feelings towards Scotland as a whole tends to be one of nothingness, an afterthought, one that is often (and rightly so) perceived as arrogance. I see a very similar attitude on here when I see people speaking about Shetlands and Orkney. The English feeling towards the Scots is no better or worse than to the Welsh or Northern Irish, in fact those countries are probably even less noticed by the people of England. Then there is the small minority of people who are just scum and for whatever reason believe that they 'genuinely' hate the people of the other country. I have found there are more of these in Scotland and who can't seem to see the line between sporting rivalry and genuine hatred. It's interesting in Scotland that the small pocket of people who tend to hate the English for being English are young bams and old folk. I'm hoping the old folk are the last of a dying generation. The portrayal by the media on both sides is a whole different kettle of fish. There are many agendas at work here, so many of their stories are written with political games at their heart and I think the majority are not a true reflection of the people. Spot on. I think many English people are still playing catch up with the referendum debate. It was perceived (naturally) as an anti English movement by many (how could you not take it as a slight?). Sturgeon will hopefully start to break some of that defensiveness down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 17th March 2015 Douglas Alexander hits out at how rumours being spread on social media is damaging democracy http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/mar/17/online-rumours-damage-british-democracy-says-douglas-alexander 6th April 2015 Douglas deletes his tweets after being caught spreading unsubstantiated rumours on social media. http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/06/labours-douglas-alexander-deletes-tweets-saying-nicola-sturgeon-backs-tories ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 The same as everybody else's that's repeatedly been said on here You don't and won't get it, as you're not Scottish and don't think Scotland should be independent, only the BritNats up here agree with your POV. That's a FuzzyAffro whataboutarry answer. In fact it's not even an answer. I've seen loads of good reasons for independence, the people here are more hard done by isn't one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Just what I thought. There are many reasons for independence. Bringing accountability closer to home, ideology differences, but pretending you're hard done by compared to anyone else in Britain isn't. Maybe we're "hard done by" maybe we're not but could we be done by better? That's the question. Personally I'm not particularly bothered whether other parts of Britain are hard done by or well served in comparison to ourselves. The question is which candidate is best placed to serve the interests of me and my fellow Edinburghers at Westminster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Remember when the Mail tried to convince us Scotland had turned into a no go zone for English people http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2745565/Savage-racism-turning-Scotland-no-zone-English.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 wtf is this? You don't recognise your contribution Lichtie ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodjesSixteenIncher Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 My Britishness is not defined by rage at all my friend, it's you that continues to wallow in the role of shouty little man on here. The article wasn't perhaps what I was looking for, but you only need to read some of the language on this thread to realise that some of the behaviour and comment you highlight down south also very much exists up here. The words English c*nt appear to be perfectly acceptable? Imagine if I singled someone out in the Question Time audience and referred to them as an Irish, Chinese or Indian c*nt ?? I also note that none of the alleged examples of anti English abuse quoted in the original piece were challenged iirc . It works both ways, you and the rest of your P&B hangers on need stop pretending we hold some sort of moral high ground, we don't. Except English c**t isn't common parlance. Your "Britishness" (boak) seems to involve a determination to make up things to slag Scotland for. How sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Could you imagine the reaction if BBC Scotland broadcast a program mocking the English? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01d6nlq Or if one of our political parties releasing a party political broadcast like this having a pop at us Scottish subsidy junkies https://youtu.be/1234Dnbv_9o?t=1m55s "What have they given us in return" "deep fried mars bars" "Irn Bru" "A mayor who belongs to a Scottish run government" "Gordon i'm alright Jock Brown" "We'll be standing for England, Not Scotland" You'd never heard our comedians either take the stage on TV to slag off England... https://youtu.be/tHA1ufmLZQY It doesn't matter how you spin in "Jock bashing" is deemed as acceptable in the English media. Thankfully we don't see the same up here when we discuss issued in England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 That's a FuzzyAffro whataboutarry answer. In fact it's not even an answer. I've seen loads of good reasons for independence, the people here are more hard done by isn't one. It's not, I don't see how much more simpler I can make my POV. We as a country should get the government the majority vote for every single time. I don't see myself as British. I see myself as Scottish. People up here have different needs and wants to those in England. We should be able to vote for a government that has 100 percent control over what happens here and that cares about Scotland only. If after independence I voted SNP yet Scotland and other Scottish voters wanted Labour to run the show I wouldn't feel hard done by at all, that's what the people up here will have decided and wanted. If the people up here voted in the majority for Labour but then get Tory I don't find that fair. We are a country. That's my opinion. You will never understand it as you are English, not Scottish and you don't think Scotland should be an independent country. That's a great reason for independence IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Maybe we're "hard done by" maybe we're not but could we be done by better? That's the question. Personally I'm not particularly bothered whether other parts of Britain are hard done by or well served in comparison to ourselves. The question is which candidate is best placed to serve the interests of me and my fellow Edinburghers at Westminster. Totally agree with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 It's not, I don't see how much more simpler I can make my POV. We as a country should get the government the majority vote for every single time. I don't see myself as British. I see myself as Scottish. People up here have different needs and wants to those in England. We should be able to vote for a government that has 100 percent control over what happens here and that cares about Scotland only. If after independence I voted SNP yet Scotland and other Scottish voters wanted Labour to run the show I wouldn't feel hard done by at all, that's what the people up here will have decided and wanted. If the people up here voted in the majority for Labour but then get Tory I don't find that fair. We are a country. That's my opinion. You will never understand it as you are English, not Scottish and you don't think Scotland should be an independent country. That's a great reason for independence IMO. Nonsense really. You're a nationalist so think purely along nationalist lines. You might not agree with the UK, I might not. Someone in Liverpool might not. Just because you believe in an independent Scotland doesn't mean you have less of a say than me or anyone else from any other part of the UK. You obviously want something that is more accountable, a government closer to home, but at the moment you aren't getting what you want and neither am I. You aren't any more hard done my than me when it comes to getting what we have voted for. How the majority of people vote in Surrey has as much relevance to you as me. No more no less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~~~ Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Nonsense really. You're a nationalist so think purely along nationalist lines. You might not agree with the UK, I might not. Someone in Liverpool might not. Just because you believe in an independent Scotland doesn't mean you have less of a say than me or anyone else from any other part of the UK. You obviously want something that is more accountable, a government closer to home, but at the moment you aren't getting what you want and neither am I. You aren't any more hard done my than me when it comes to getting what we have voted for. How the majority of people vote in Surrey has as much relevance to you as me. No more no less. Again, comparing a region of England with Scotland is laughable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 If the Tories win the election for arguments sake, I vote Labour in Berwick, and someone else votes Labour in Eyemouth, am I getting the government I vote for because I'm in England but the guy in Eyemouth doesn't? When I talk about this subject I'm not thinking along national lines, but purely on groups of people getting what they vote for. When it comes to that, it doesn't matter what cross section it is, a nation, a constituency, a family, women, gay people, builders, millionaires and so on. When it comes to a group of people feeling hard done by, you could pick any group of people. Bringing decision making closer to home is a valid argument, saying you're hard done because you live in a certain geographical area or nation isn't. Although I suppose someone in the Isle Of Wight could claim to have less of a say than someone in the Western Isles. Excellently put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm afraid you guys are 100% just going round in circles now. Neither of you are going to sway the other and you're both just hammering home the same point again and again. So to change the tune a bit, I see Labour are wheeling out Tony Blair today... I wonder how that will go down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerwickMad Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Again, comparing a region of England with Scotland is laughableI'm not comparing it to Scotland. I'm comparing people in one area to people in another area. Whether that's a nation, county, town or house doesn't really matter. One person in Scotland isn't any more hard done by than one person in England, or Surrey, or Glasgow, or Cardiff, or Inverness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm afraid you guys are 100% just going round in circles now. Neither of you are going to sway the other and you're both just hammering home the same point again and again. So to change the tune a bit, I see Labour are wheeling out Tony Blair today... I wonder how that will go down. It might go down quite well in some circles, but for most of us TB will always be regarded as that war-mongering, lying bastart that took us into an illegal war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Nonsense really. You're a nationalist so think purely along nationalist lines. You might not agree with the UK, I might not. Someone in Liverpool might not. Just because you believe in an independent Scotland doesn't mean you have less of a say than me or anyone else from any other part of the UK. You obviously want something that is more accountable, a government closer to home, but at the moment you aren't getting what you want and neither am I. You aren't any more hard done my than me when it comes to getting what we have voted for. How the majority of people vote in Surrey has as much relevance to you as me. No more no less. Predictable You don't get it and never will. Like I said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 I'm not comparing it to Scotland. I'm comparing people in one area to people in another area. Whether that's a nation, county, town or house doesn't really matter. One person in Scotland isn't any more hard done by than one person in England, or Surrey, or Glasgow, or Cardiff, or Inverness. STILL DOESNT GET IT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuzzyAffro Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 If the Tories win the election for arguments sake, I vote Labour in Berwick, and someone else votes Labour in Eyemouth, am I getting the government I vote for because I'm in England but the guy in Eyemouth doesn't? When I talk about this subject I'm not thinking along national lines, but purely on groups of people getting what they vote for. When it comes to that, it doesn't matter what cross section it is, a nation, a constituency, a family, women, gay people, builders, millionaires and so on. When it comes to a group of people feeling hard done by, you could pick any group of people Bringing decision making closer to home is a valid argument, saying you're hard done because you live in a certain geographical area or nation isn't. Although I suppose someone in the Isle Of Wight could claim to have less of a say than someone in the Western Isles. You're not a country champ. And you oppose grouping people together anyway don't you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted April 7, 2015 Share Posted April 7, 2015 Excellently put. Raging BritNat gets it but doesn't see the irony of it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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