General Election 2015

[FuzzyAffro]

I clearly do. When it comes to thinking along 'getting what you vote for', you think purely along national lines. It's obviously by far and away the most important thing to you. That doesn't mean you're more hard done by than me if neither of us vote for the governing party.

We're not comparing me and you though champ, we're comparing your country and ours. Your country gets the government it votes for, so surprise surprise you don't see any problems, but ours doesn't, so we do.

[welshbairn]

I'm not comparing it to Scotland. I'm comparing people in one area to people in another area. Whether that's a nation, county, town or house doesn't really matter. One person in Scotland isn't any more hard done by than one person in England, or Surrey, or Glasgow, or Cardiff, or Inverness.

That depends on the extent to which the person in Surrey or Inverness is content to be ruled from London.

[FuzzyAffro]

He does actually get it, he's just either a raging Britnat utterly outraged by Scottish nationalism as its a threat to his identity, or he's an English nationalist on the troll. Its not a difficult thing to 'get' so he clearly does get it, he's just at it.

[Kyle]

STILL DOESNT GET IT

ImageUploadedByPie & Bovril1428397969.037012.jpg

I think he does get it in fairness, but doesn't agree with you.

Both points are perfectly valid, just being made from different perspectives. I don't think there's much point in continuing the argument as you're both right from your own point of view.

[FuzzyAffro]

I think he does get it in fairness, but doesn't agree with you.

Both points are perfectly valid, just being made from different perspectives. I don't think there's much point in continuing the argument as you're both right from your own point of view.

His point isn't valid at all, its utter shite made up to justify his rabid opposition to Scottish independence. Worthy of no respect at all.

[1320Lichtie]

I think he does get it in fairness, but doesn't agree with you.

Both points are perfectly valid, just being made from different perspectives. I don't think there's much point in continuing the argument as you're both right from your own point of view.

I sort of agree with him after the referendum tbf, we can only accept what he's saying now as 55 chose no, so we can all moan about it being unfair but we chose it at the end of the day.

However I still totally 100 percent disagree with it being a YES voter, like many others including a lot of no voters who would like what I said earlier on to be the case, but were unconvinced by other arguments put forward.

One day lads.

[git-intae-thum]

His point isn't valid at all, its utter shite made up to justify his rabid opposition to Scottish independence. Worthy of no respect at all.

I think for BM's point to be valid he would also have to be content with the non existence of the UK nation state.

If he accepts this and would be happy to see England or indeed the UK ruled, say from for example Berlin or Beijing, then his opinion is valid.

If not, he is just being another British nationalist roaster.

[Kyle]

His point isn't valid at all, its utter shite made up to justify his rabid opposition to Scottish independence. Worthy of no respect at all.

That doesn't make his point invalid. People on here (including me to an extent) view things on a nationalistic level. He doesn't and that's fine. Whether we like it or not, we're part of the UK and all of our votes count the same.

It looks likely a majority of Scotland's seats will return an SNP MP, but they'll only play a minor part in the overall running of the country. We're a small part of a much bigger machine - it's what we voted for in September last year and until that changes, we'll just have to accept that.

[FuzzyAffro]

Exactly, its utterly farcical.

He will say he would have no problem with that as he's just a citizen of the world man, and has to say that or he exposes how full of shit he is. Its also easy to say that as he will never have to actually experience it, like we do more than half the time.

But in reality if England had a government that won less than 2% of the seats in England he'd be frothing at the mouth and not such a citizen of the world then.

[FuzzyAffro]

That doesn't make his point invalid. People on here (including me to an extent) view things on a nationalistic level. He doesn't and that's fine. Whether we like it or not, we're part of the UK and all of our votes count the same.

It looks likely a majority of Scotland's seats will return an SNP MP, but they'll only play a minor part in the overall running of the country. We're a small part of a much bigger machine - it's what we voted for in September last year and until that changes, we'll just have to accept that.

It does, as his point is utter shite with no basis in reality. He is as big a nationalist as any of us, just his nationalism depends on our nationalism failing.

I don't think we have to accept that either, we just have to make sure we win next time. All its done is made that imperative.

[Thumper]

It doesn't take long for the Britnats to talk themselves round to enthusiastically approving of a system in which they never get the government that they vote for, does it?

[FuzzyAffro]

They've got no choice, otherwise they expose themselves as massive hypocrites. But they know they will never have to actually live with that, so can happily say they'd have no problem with it in order to undermine our nationalism.

If the UK was part of a political union where the UK's voice didn't matter at all and we got the government say Germany and France voted for they'd be in the streets with their guns like Reynard.

[Kyle]

It does, as his point is utter shite with no basis in reality. He is as big a nationalist as any of us, just his nationalism depends on our nationalism failing.

I don't think we have to accept that either, we just have to make sure we win next time. All its done is made that imperative.

But unless we engage with the system properly, we'll never get our independence. Bridges need to be built with no voters, particularly those who continue to vote labour and the middle classes who voted no because of 'economic uncertainty'. Calling them cowards, britnats or idiots (I'm guilty of the latter more than the former 2, particularly to SLAB voters!!) isn't helping anyone and will just further harden their desire to vote no.

If we can return a big number of SNP MPs, as looks likely at the moment, we really need them to push progressive politics positively. We're never going to have a better chance to improve the yes/SNP image as we will after May.

[1320Lichtie]

he's just a citizen of the world man

Pish myself laughing everytime you say that, I hope you're doing a Shaggy/American Hippy accent in your head when you're typing it out! I do when I read it.

[Mr Bairn]

I think he has a point, here. Take a region of England of size 5m. Let's say Yorkshire, which has a population very similar to Scotland.

The majority of seats in Yorkshire in 2010 were Labour seats, they didn't get the government.

Are these 5m not getting the government they voted for any less ridiculous than the 5m in Scotland not getting the voted for? Well Yes if you believe Scotland should be treated as a separate entity, but then that boils it to identity politics and becomes a simple argument of "Scotland should be independent because Scotland is a nation"

This is a fair argument but I wish people would just admit it from day one.

[1320Lichtie]

I think he has a point, here. Take a region of England of size 5m. Let's say Yorkshire, which has a population very similar to Scotland.

The majority of seats in Yorkshire in 2010 were Labour seats, they didn't get the government.

Are these 5m not getting the government they voted for any less ridiculous than the 5m in Scotland not getting the voted for? Well Yes if you believe Scotland should be treated as a separate entity, but then that boils it to identity politics and becomes a simple argument of "Scotland should be independent because Scotland is a nation"

This is a fair argument but I wish people would just admit it from day one.

Oh FFS

[FuzzyAffro]

But unless we engage with the system properly, we'll never get our independence. Bridges need to be built with no voters, particularly those who continue to vote labour and the middle classes who voted no because of 'economic uncertainty'. Calling them cowards, britnats or idiots (I'm guilty of the latter more than the former 2, particularly to SLAB voters!!) isn't helping anyone and will just further harden their desire to vote no.

If we can return a big number of SNP MPs, as looks likely at the moment, we really need them to push progressive politics positively. We're never going to have a better chance to improve the yes/SNP image as we will after May.

Fair enough, all reasonable comment. Except Britnats, they will never, ever, ever vote yes no matter what. There is nothing that could ever convince say RedRob to vote yes, as he is a British nationalist. So its fine to continue to slate them as they deserve it and you're not losing any votes anyway.

Pish myself laughing everytime you say that, I hope you're doing a Shaggy/American Hippy accent in your head when you're typing it out! I do when I read it.

Lol yeah I think surfer dude with shades and long hair smoking a big reefer

[FuzzyAffro]

I think he has a point, here. Take a region of England of size 5m. Let's say Yorkshire, which has a population very similar to Scotland.

The majority of seats in Yorkshire in 2010 were Labour seats, they didn't get the government.

Are these 5m not getting the government they voted for any less ridiculous than the 5m in Scotland not getting the voted for? Well Yes if you believe Scotland should be treated as a separate entity, but then that boils it to identity politics and becomes a simple argument of "Scotland should be independent because Scotland is a nation"

This is a fair argument but I wish people would just admit it from day one.

You can't compare regions of England to Scotland. You can only compare England to Scotland, England gets the government it votes for most of the time, Scotland doesn't.

[strichener]

I think he has a point, here. Take a region of England of size 5m. Let's say Yorkshire, which has a population very similar to Scotland.

The majority of seats in Yorkshire in 2010 were Labour seats, they didn't get the government.

Are these 5m not getting the government they voted for any less ridiculous than the 5m in Scotland not getting the voted for? Well Yes if you believe Scotland should be treated as a separate entity, but then that boils it to identity politics and becomes a simple argument of "Scotland should be independent because Scotland is a nation"

This is a fair argument but I wish people would just admit it from day one.

Does Yorkshire have it's own legal system? Is there particular funding for Yorkshire that is calculated based on what is spent on another region of England? Does it have it's own health service? Land Registry? Funding Council? Agricultural Wages Board? I could go on but I am sure that you get the main thrust of the argument:

They are only comparable in terms of population. This does not make it equivalent to Scotland by any other measure.

[Elixir]

Unionism = another form of nationalism

I hope the trolls on here can come to terms with this.