Granny Danger Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-29559771 What goes through a judge's head when he makes an award as paltry as this? Money won't solve what happened to this poor young woman, but £100k is not going to set her up for life. "A deaf girl from Pakistan kept as a slave for nine years by a millionaire couple from Salford is to receive £100,000 in compensation. Ilyas and Tallat Ashar were jailed last October after the girl was found in their cellar in 2009. The victim was repeatedly raped and forced to work at the family's properties as a child for nine years. Manchester Crown Court ruled the couple must also repay £42,000 of benefits falsely claimed in her name. The Ashars must also pay £321,000 towards the cost of their trials. Money laundering Now in her 20s, the victim, who cannot be named, is believed to have been as young as 10 when she was trafficked into the UK. Ashar cellar The girl was found in a cellar in 2009 She was found sleeping in a cot bed in the Ashars' cellar by trading standards staff, who were investigating allegations of money laundering. Police said the victim's details were used on bank accounts linked to the couple. But when officers tried to speak to her at the house, they realised she was incapable of communication and moved her to a place of safety. Police said she could not read or write, and have accepted the benefit fraud was carried out by the Ashars. The victim had to learn a form of sign language to give evidence at the trial last year, when her progress was compared to "a butterfly coming out of a chrysalis". She is now living independently and has improved her sign language skills, said police. During their trial last year, Ilyas Ashar, 85, was found guilty of 13 counts of raping the girl. He and his wife, Tallat Ashar, 69, were both convicted of benefit fraud and trafficking. The Court of Appeal extended their jail terms to 15 years and six years respectively this February, after the pair's sentencing last year was described as "unduly lenient". The couple's daughter, Faaiza Ashar, 47, was given a 12-month community order with 300 hours of unpaid work after she was also found guilty of benefit fraud." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigmouth Strikes Again Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 £100k for her for 9 years of life as a slave and torture victim, £321k for the lawyers and judge who dealt with the prosecution for however much work they did on a case that was clearly impossible to lose. Of course if I called that particular judge corrupt, he could jail me for it. Isn't our 'justice' system interesting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Would the compensation have been higher if she was white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy85 Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Had worse jobs tbh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 £100k for her for 9 years of life as a slave and torture victim, £321k for the lawyers and judge who dealt with the prosecution for however much work they did on a case that was clearly impossible to lose. D'you think the judge and the public prosecutor pocket the money? They're salaried and the money goes back into the public purse. They explain how the compensation for the girl was calculated. Seems meagre, but they seem to calculate it simply on the basis of lost wages as opposed to pain and suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Lawyers for the couple argued a deduction should be made for board and lodging accrued by the girl when she was with them. Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 What should the minimum rate a year, for being enslaved and raped be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I assume that this compensation is separate to anything paid by the criminal injuries compensation scheme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I assume that this compensation is separate to anything paid by the criminal injuries compensation scheme? I hope so, but regulations of the uk scheme you have to a citizen of UK or Euro....she not!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Would the compensation have been higher if she was white? Got any evidence of cases like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom McB Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Plenty of Modern slavery about http://www.luton-dunstable.co.uk/Irish-traveller-Tommy-Connors-Senior-ordered-pay-than232k-slavery-court-case-Luton-Crown-Court/story-21703085-detail/story.html http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29420184 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 D'you think the judge and the public prosecutor pocket the money? They're salaried and the money goes back into the public purse. They explain how the compensation for the girl was calculated. Seems meagre, but they seem to calculate it simply on the basis of lost wages as opposed to pain and suffering. 9 years, 24 hrs a day at minimum wage is still over half a million quid. Also, no matter how you want to view it, the officers of the court awarded themselves more thyan 3X the amount offered to the victim of an utterly horrific crime. You can pretend we have a justice system which provides justice if it helps you sleep at night but it's pretty clear from the way it operates that the justice system is set up to make lots of money for the people within the justice system, In fact even calling it a justice system is clearly a misnomer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cults_sheep Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 If she can't talk, then technically she never said no... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 £9 an hour. Every hour? Seems reasonable. Where does one apply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cults_sheep Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 Every hour? Seems reasonable. Where does one apply? Take it she only gets half pay when she's got the painters in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 This is probably part of my descent into middle-aged Tory b*****d status but how can the guy in this not get life? You can be sentenced to life for rape, he is alleged to have done it over a period of years, including to a minor. Life sentence would be appropriate here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The OP Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 9 years, 24 hrs a day at minimum wage is still over half a million quid. Also, no matter how you want to view it, the officers of the court awarded themselves more thyan 3X the amount offered to the victim of an utterly horrific crime. You can pretend we have a justice system which provides justice if it helps you sleep at night but it's pretty clear from the way it operates that the justice system is set up to make lots of money for the people within the justice system, In fact even calling it a justice system is clearly a misnomer. I'm afraid you still don't seem to get the situation - the officers of the court didn't 'award' themselves anything. Court will cost the same amount to run whether the guilty or the state pay for it. There might be a debate to be had over whether judges or lawyers are overpaid but I'm not sure I'd want criminal trials overseen and prosecuted by people making far, far less than a decent criminal defence lawyer could command. The victim is entitled to sue her 'employers' for pain, suffering and loss of amenity caused by their actions and omissions. She'd also have a criminal injuries claim as has been mentioned. The court can only do what it has competence to do, which probably works in cases which aren't this unusual (and in most cases the accused won't have the sort of money being spoken about here). Presumably under English law for some reason a criminal court can award withheld wages but can't award compensation for damages suffered during the course of employment because that is the responsibility of a civil court. If they choose to award sums for that or if they choose to award unpaid wages for 24 hours a day when it isn't possible to work 24 hours a day then those decisions would be overturned after an expensive appeal. I tend to agree the guy should get life, but he's in his late 80s, so I think in this instance 15 years will mean life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jock001 Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I'm afraid you still don't seem to get the situation - the officers of the court didn't 'award' themselves anything. Court will cost the same amount to run whether the guilty or the state pay for it. There might be a debate to be had over whether judges or lawyers are overpaid but I'm not sure I'd want criminal trials overseen and prosecuted by people making far, far less than a decent criminal defence lawyer could command. The victim is entitled to sue her 'employers' for pain, suffering and loss of amenity caused by their actions and omissions. She'd also have a criminal injuries claim as has been mentioned. The court can only do what it has competence to do, which probably works in cases which aren't this unusual (and in most cases the accused won't have the sort of money being spoken about here). Presumably under English law for some reason a criminal court can award withheld wages but can't award compensation for damages suffered during the course of employment because that is the responsibility of a civil court. If they choose to award sums for that or if they choose to award unpaid wages for 24 hours a day when it isn't possible to work 24 hours a day then those decisions would be overturned after an expensive appeal. I tend to agree the guy should get life, but he's in his late 80s, so I think in this instance 15 years will mean life. I get the situation just as well as you. The court put a value on both things and decided their time was really important and valuable but that a woman tortured for 9 years didn't deserve minimum wage because her life just wasn't all that important in the grand scale of things. Do the maths. UK min wage £6.50. According to the article it the judge awarded compensation for 12 hours per day work. £78 per day for 9 years is £256k. The minimum wage idea is completely arbitrary anyway, the judge decided that was all she was worth and that's it. He also decided she didn't deserve the proper min wage, just what it was at the time and based on the age she was at the time. Deciding on only 12 hours per day work is also completely arbitrary. The girl was taken for almost 80k hours and was awarded around £1.30 per hour by the judge to compensate her. To me that suggests the judge has far too high an opinion of himself and far too low an opinion of the victim. Besides, why should the court in a criminal case ever take costs from the accused? It looks like the guy essentiall got a lighter sentence because he could afford to kick some cash towards the court system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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