Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 It would benefit Jim put it that way. I'm out there strongly advising everyone to vote Lib Dem. Some are more prepared to entertain it than others. To be fair, the Lib Dems policies still make a lot of sense. I voted Lib Dem in 2010, much good it did me as I'm in Kirkcaldy. The people appear to want to punish the Lib Dems for reneging on key promises, and backing the Tories in 2010. I suspect the backing the Tories bit was the clincher. What can you do? Get them strongly advised, that's what! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 To be fair, the Lib Dems policies still make a lot of sense. I voted Lib Dem in 2010, much good it did me as I'm in Kirkcaldy. The people appear to want to punish the Lib Dems for reneging on key promises, and backing the Tories in 2010. I suspect the backing the Tories bit was the clincher. What can you do? Get them strongly advised, that's what! Maybe I'm reading your emphasis wrong, but it seems to me you're downplaying this. All the things the Tory government has foisted upon the people of the UK over the last five years has only been possible by the support of the LibDems. Let's be perfectly clear about this; without LibDem support they simply couldn't have done things like introduce the bedroom tax. The LibDems are worse than the Tories; why? Because no one is under any illusion what they'll get when they vote Tory, they expected better from the LibDems. My only qualification of that being that anyone who votes LibDem this time around cannot complain about their actions over the next five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Yes. Quite a few. They're probably at least as big a number as people who straightforwardly identify as Labour. Maybe they should start a party. The BNP? Or is that taken? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Maybe I'm reading your emphasis wrong, but it seems to me you're downplaying this. All the things the Tory government has foisted upon the people of the UK over the last five years has only been possible by the support of the LibDems. Let's be perfectly clear about this; without LibDem support they simply couldn't have done things like introduce the bedroom tax. The LibDems are worse than the Tories; why? Because no one is under any illusion what they'll get when they vote Tory, they expected better from the LibDems. My only qualification of that being that anyone who votes LibDem this time around cannot complain about their actions over the next five years. I'm not sure I'd downplay it. I think it was naive of the Lib Dem leadership to think the public would say "good on the Lib Dems, we need stable government" but I also think they would have been discredited if they had put Brown back into power, as the general public were rightly sick of Brown's government.Various people on here use the 'red Tories' patter. In which case, what does it matter whether it's Labour or the Tories that get in? The Tories have operated with a large yearly deficit for every year of the last parliament. Maybe their reluctance to really get it up the poor, was down to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems did raise the income tax threshold, which will help the working poor. Not sure what other parts of their manifesto made it to fruition, but I'm sure Ad Lib could enlighten us. Losing the Lib Dems is not healthy for British politics. Ideally, for me, them and the Greens will remain a force. Although I hope the Lib Dems change their constitutional stance, so that they at least favour a federal approach. ...also, they need to sack Rennie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capybara Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Tories riding to Murphy,s rescue. Says it all really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Just because things that are this wrong, should never be forgotten. We haven't seen it for a page or two Reynard's predictions are just the worst ever. Where is he anyway? Has he retreated to the bunker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm not sure I'd downplay it. I think it was naive of the Lib Dem leadership to think the public would say "good on the Lib Dems, we need stable government" but I also think they would have been discredited if they had put Brown back into power, as the general public were rightly sick of Brown's government. Various people on here use the 'red Tories' patter. In which case, what does it matter whether it's Labour or the Tories that get in? The Tories have operated with a large yearly deficit for every year of the last parliament. Maybe their reluctance to really get it up the poor, was down to the Lib Dems. The Lib Dems did raise the income tax threshold, which will help the working poor. Not sure what other parts of their manifesto made it to fruition, but I'm sure Ad Lib could enlighten us. Losing the Lib Dems is not healthy for British politics. Ideally, for me, them and the Greens will remain a force. Although I hope the Lib Dems change their constitutional stance, so that they at least favour a federal approach. ...also, they need to sack Rennie. They could have supported (or oppossed) the Tories on a vote-by-vote basis; instead their leadership couldn't wait to get into the ministerial cars and consort with the senior government advisers. They sold those who voted for them very, very short. This idea that they curbed the worst excesses of the Tories is nonsense; again they could easily have done this from the opposition benches. They went to parliament to represent those who had voted for them and betrayed them from the off. Despicable party, unprincipled leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Maybe I'm reading your emphasis wrong, but it seems to me you're downplaying this. All the things the Tory government has foisted upon the people of the UK over the last five years has only been possible by the support of the LibDems. Let's be perfectly clear about this; without LibDem support they simply couldn't have done things like introduce the bedroom tax. The LibDems are worse than the Tories; why? Because no one is under any illusion what they'll get when they vote Tory, they expected better from the LibDems. My only qualification of that being that anyone who votes LibDem this time around cannot complain about their actions over the next five years. Facilitators! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WaffenThinMint Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Looks like the Liberal Democrats standing a candidate here could keep Jim Murphy out of Westminster. If this happens, you can thank me all later. Don't flatter yourself ya wee bawhair, your share of the vote will amount to pish in the pool. If you get 1%, you'll be lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 They could have supported (or oppossed) the Tories on a vote-by-vote basis; instead their leadership couldn't wait to get into the ministerial cars and consort with the senior government advisers. They sold those who voted for them very, very short.This idea that they curbed the worst excesses of the Tories is nonsense; again they could easily have done this from the opposition benches.They went to parliament to represent those who had voted for them and betrayed them from the off. Despicable party, unprincipled leadership. We may get a chance to see how a minority party gets on in this next parliament, when they have to rely on support on a vote-by-vote basis. If it's a success, then I'll agree with you on the comments above. If not, it may point to the Lib Dems taking the right approach in trying to get as many of their policies through by forming a coalition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 We may get a chance to see how a minority party gets on in this next parliament, when they have to rely on support on a vote-by-vote basis. If it's a success, then I'll agree with you on the comments above. If not, it may point to the Lib Dems taking the right approach in trying to get as many of their policies through by forming a coalition. There is absolutely no measure by which the positive effect the Lib Dems have had in getting whatever theoretically good Lib Dem-only policies they had passed (I can't think of a single thing they campaigned on which is now law off the top of my head) cancels out the negative effect of the Tories having had sufficient votes to enact the majority of their swingeing, class-war agenda. It would arguably have been better if nothing at all had been passed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 There is absolutely no measure by which the positive effect the Lib Dems have had in getting whatever theoretically good Lib Dem-only policies they had passed (I can't think of a single thing they campaigned on which is now law off the top of my head) cancels out the negative effect of the Tories having had sufficient votes to enact the majority of their swingeing, class-war agenda. It would arguably have been better if nothing at all had been passed.I honesty thought it would be a lot worse under the Tories. I didn't find it that bad. That said, if I was reliant on benefits I might be singing a different song. I hope they don't get in this time, as they have to get that deficit down and they may be tempted to speed that up in this parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The thing that turned me off the Lib Dems was selling out to the Tories for a referendum on a pishy watered down version of PR and then running the pishyest campaign of all pishy campaigns in history to win it. They came over as utterly useless and ineffectual amateurs who were just after getting their mitts on ministerial perks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I honesty thought it would be a lot worse under the Tories. I didn't find it that bad. That said, if I was reliant in benefits I might be singing a different song. And do you think it's been less bad than you expected because of the influence of the Liberal Democrats, who have enthusiastically voted for everything the Tories have asked them to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thumper Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The thing that turned me off the Lib Dems was selling out to the Tories for a referendum on a pishy watered down version of PR and then running the pishyest campaign of all pishy campaigns in history to win it. They came over as utterly useless and ineffectual amateurs who were just after getting their mitts on ministerial perks. Proportional representation was, ironically, killed by the exact measure that brought the referendum about: the Lib Dems forming a coalition with the Tories, and thus abandoning their entire platform. "Vote for a new system which will give us more Liberal Democrats" is not a winner when roughly 75% of 2010 Lib Dem voters now regarded them as absolute pariahs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Analysis of the 2 Ashcroft polls would suggest that torys are happy voting labour but labour aint as happy to vote tory,... Mundell's seat goes a long way north into former coalfields and covers some traditional hardcore Labour areas, so think a bit of the above average swing in the central belt stuff is probably happening now that it's clear that the way to get Mundell out is SNP rather than Labour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkoRaj Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Analysis of the 2 Ashcroft polls would suggest that torys are happy voting labour but labour aint as happy to vote tory, therefore any tactical seats that are successful(very few imo) will prob be marginal SNP/Labour areas( that have many torys) ie East Renfrewshire and Edinburgh South. In general West Scotland is prob immune here, perhaps lib dem in East Dumbartonshire. North Scotland should be Ok. Makes sense really. people are smart enough to realise that if you are a tory it doesn't make much difference to who forms the government whether you vote snp or labour whereas labour voters, no matter how much they hate the snp, still would prefer an extra SNP MP than a tory because they know that it makes no sense to vote against the snp when it will actually harm their own party's chances of forming a government, i.e a vote for the snp is not a vote for the tories in any way, shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The thing that turned me off the Lib Dems was selling out to the Tories for a referendum on a pishy watered down version of PR and then running the pishyest campaign of all pishy campaigns in history to win it. They came over as utterly useless and ineffectual amateurs who were just after getting their mitts on ministerial perks. Yep, they completely fucked up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 And do you think it's been less bad than you expected because of the influence of the Liberal Democrats, who have enthusiastically voted for everything the Tories have asked them to? I'm not sure. I don't know what negotiations went on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I'm not sure. I don't know what negotiations went on. There was a drama doc about it recently that I missed. Anyone remember what it was called and what channel it was on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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