Pete's Frontier Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 I didn't have to pay, like all my generation, but with every other kid going now that doesn't mean it should be free forever. I would only make it free for technical degrees where skill shortages exist like engineering and sciences. If you want to spend four years doing some media course, or the history of medieval insular art, get your fucking wallet out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chico Cavvy Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 What? Your view is a staggering view to hold of basic stupidity, all three leaders have said they signed nothing, the DR has said they signed nothing, they signed nothing. Do you really think they went to DR HQ and signed a copy of the DR then they printed those off and sold them? None of them signed anything. The signatures were printed on the page to give that impression to dumb people, legally it has no basis as nobody physically signed anything. Exactly, "the vow" was just the Daily Record's headline interpretation of the party leaders coming out with their rhetoric about "guaranteed new powers" for Scotland the day before. Even if they did sign it officially, it would have no legal basis whatsoever. Pure propaganda piece Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 University tuition should be free. To balance the books, there needs to be less places. The places should go to the most academically able. To give everyone the chance to be academically as best as they can be, there needs to be investment in high quality schools and teachers. Private schools should be abolished too. I think the post-war Labour government actually attempted to do this. This is a lovely idea but in practice completely unrealistic. The gap between the best and worst state schools is much much much bigger than the gap between the best state schools and private schools. There just isn't an effective way Universities can significantly cut admissions while also admitting the brightest kids from disadvantaged backgrounds. Not sending as many kids to University doesn't particularly help to balance the books. To have any prospect of a decent job in the long term, most of them will still need to go to college or get other types of vocational training. Employers don't have a magic money pot to fund this, so the state will have to do it. On private schools you're engaging in total cognitive dissonance. 5% of Scots go to private school. As soon as you get rid of private schools, that's a 5% increase, minimum, you have to make to the Education budget just to stand still. Wouldn't it be better to focus on using the money these places free up to help our most disadvantaged kids? That's how England has transformed a lot of their inner city schools with historical deprivation. Attainment in disadvantaged areas in London is streets ahead of Glasgow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Anyone know how many graduates end up in jobs where a degree is demanded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 You think it's more important that we adhere to a "principle" of free education, even if the effects are to make it *harder* for working class kids to get into University and gets funded by cutting college places, also predominantly taken up by kids from deprived backgrounds? Some socialist warrior you are. No. I want a system whereby everyone who wants to enter into further and higher education gets the opportunity to do so AND doesn't come out at the end burdened with debt. Is that too difficult for you to understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 No. I want a system whereby everyone who wants to enter into further and higher education gets the opportunity to do so AND doesn't come out at the end burdened with debt. Is that too difficult for you to understand. But since such a system isn't possible, you think that we should pursue what you admit is a less progressive policy because "something something DIVISION!!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 But since such a system isn't possible, you think that we should pursue what you admit is a less progressive policy because "something something DIVISION!!!!" A system such as this IS possible, it just needs to be funded. Your party would rather spend money on renewing Trident; a fact that cannot be ignored regardless of your personal view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 And yet ed was on about "delivering the vow" last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 You think it's more important that we adhere to a "principle" of free education, even if the effects are to make it *harder* for working class kids to get into University and gets funded by cutting college places, also predominantly taken up by kids from deprived backgrounds? Some socialist warrior you are. You can't have both and I'd rather free tuition. Correct decision in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 You can't have both and I'd rather free tuition. Correct decision in my book. Why can't you have both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Why can't you have both? Affordability I would imagine. The consequence of free tuition was less college places. I'm happy with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Affordability I would imagine. The consequence of free tuition was less college places. I'm happy with that. We are a rich country. We can easily afford free tuition and more college places. That's what we should be offering; no compromises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 We are a rich country. We can easily afford free tuition and more college places. That's what we should be offering; no compromises.Perhaps but I don't see this big fuss about college places. Where are all these kids getting refused places. College is pretty pish easy to get into if you have the qualifications to get into a particular course. I've certainly not had any bother last year or this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete's Frontier Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 We are a rich country. We can easily afford free tuition and more college places. That's what we should be offering; no compromises. Beyond deluded. We are a country with a large budget deficit, currently being covered via Westminster, but one your nippy FM wants to burden us with - via FFA - to the tune of £10bn a year. How many years do you think we can go before we're bust like Greece and living off bailout cash? How many buckshee courses will we have then? Please tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Beyond deluded. We are a country with a large budget deficit, currently being covered via Westminster, but one your nippy FM wants to burden us with via FFA to the tune of £10bn a year. How many years do you think we can go before we're bust like Greece and living off bailout cash. How many buckshee courses will we have then? Please tell. 2 numbers for you.... 1.6 trillion and 85 billion You utter fucknugget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Beyond deluded. We are a country with a large budget deficit, currently being covered via Westminster, but one your nippy FM wants to burden us with - via FFA - to the tune of £10bn a year. How many years do you think we can go before we're bust like Greece and living off bailout cash? How many buckshee courses will we have then? Please tell. You're right. I think you should emigrate. Yemen's really nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete's Frontier Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 2 numbers for you.... 1.6 trillion and 85 billion You utter fucknugget The fucknugget is you pal. Your answer to debt is ... wait for it.. more debt, The workings of the wee natsy mind is something to behold. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Brian Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The fucknugget is you pal. Your answer to debt is ... wait for it.. more debt, The workings of the wee natsy mind is something to behold. Aye, we witness it every time you post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooky Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 Your a Tory. You espouse the politics of greed and self interest. Best just getting that out up front. Anything the SNP government do in Scotland is hamstrung by the fact that they don't have control over the budgets, they have to work within the constraints of the money that comes from Westminster. I assume you understand that. Yes their policy on tuition fees is the correct one. There no doubt about that. It's the same as their policy on free prescriptions. Is it the most progressive and redistributive of policies, no it isn't. But certain things should be free regardless of income, like tertiary education and the NHS, because the minute you deviate from that path you end up down the road of division; a road that the party you support thrives upon. I don't have much of a personal axe to grind here, I went to University some years ago as a mature student so I did benefit personally; neither of by adult sons has gone to college or university. But beyond the personal I wouldn't want anyone to feel inhibited about going on to college or university because of the thought of debt hanging over their heads. Not good for them, not good for Scotland. Sorry but that second paragraph reads to me like everything good in Scotland right now is due to the SNP, everything bad is due to those evil people in Westminster not throwing enough money at us. I'd agree with you on free prescriptions. I don't think anyone should need to pay for their health. I do disagree on tuition fees. If you choose to go to university, choose to do a degree than I don't think it is unreasonable to pay some of that money back once you are earning over a certain amount. Of course, if we could afford all of this without any negative consequences then I'd be all for it, but clearly we can't as college places are being decimated and colleges are being merged together all over the place to try and save as much money as possible. I'll be going to university after the summer, and I'm grateful that I'm going to get it for free, but at the same time I would understand if I had to pay some of that cost back in later life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 The fucknugget is you pal. Your answer to debt is ... wait for it.. more debt, The workings of the wee natsy mind is something to behold. Er.... didn't Thatcher get us into mammoth debt? Continued by NuLabour. It's the Westminster way. London was too dumb to create an oil fund too. Time to cut free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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