Question Time

[ICTJohnboy]

Labour are all over the place on Brexit.

[Antlion]

"This is characteristic of the EU"? Is the EU demanding a second UK referendum?

[Antlion]

These thick twats saying they knew exactly what they were voting for must have read some clear blueprint for Brexit unavailable to the rest of us.

[mjw]

These thick twats saying they knew exactly what they were voting for must have read some clear blueprint for Brexit unavailable to the rest of us.

They have .
Its the UKIP/EDL/Britain First blueprint.

[vikingTON]

Yeah nobody cares about your University of Life, 1950s rap lecture about the good old days of Burton*, Nigel.




























* which has never had 'good days'

[bob the tank]

Remember Burgon was the walloper who resigned live on air during Daily Politics when Corbyn was re-elected

[DublinMagyar]

Burgon came across as less likeable/trustworthy/intelligent than JRM, and he's a c**t of the highest order.

[pandarilla]

Labour are all over the place on Brexit.

Surely that's because the country is all over the place on brexit?

Those people who are 100% secure on brexit are either right wing morons with no regard or understanding for the serious consequences - or lefty liberals who want the democratic decision to be completely ignored (therefore ignoring some pretty severe grievances felt by more than half the population).

[Glenconner]

2 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Surely that's because the country is all over the place on brexit?

Those people who are 100% secure on brexit are either right wing morons with no regard or understanding for the serious consequences - or lefty liberals who want the democratic decision to be completely ignored (therefore ignoring some pretty severe grievances felt by more than half the population).


 

 

I'd reckon Corbyn and those around him are either living in a fantasy world (highly possible) or complete chancers regarding Brexit.

[pandarilla]

I'd reckon Corbyn and those around him are either living in a fantasy world (highly possible) or complete chancers regarding Brexit.

I disagree. I think corbyn is absolutely torn.

He understands the problems of the eu. But he also knows the full blown consequences of hard brexit. To make matters worse for him he can't be seen to ignore the actual decision.

What would you recommend?

[Glenconner]

30 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

I disagree. I think corbyn is absolutely torn.

He understands the problems of the eu. But he also knows the full blown consequences of hard brexit. To make matters worse for him he can't be seen to ignore the actual decision.

What would you recommend?

 

Corbyn comes from a time passed when the UK left was anti EEC. That became meaningless once the EU moved on to protection for workers rights. Once the Little Englanders have finished with the EU then the Tory/Ukip/DUP alliance will move on any benefits workers in the UK have. There wasn't and there isn't any left wing Brexit, it's a contradiction in terms. Corbyn is useless in the context of Brexit. It's like asking the Tories to defend the public sector workers. It ain't happening.

[pandarilla]

Corbyn comes from a time passed when the UK left was anti EEC. That became meaningless once the EU moved on to protection for workers rights. Once the Little Englanders have finished with the EU then the Tory/Ukip/DUP alliance will move on any benefits workers in the UK have. There wasn't and there isn't any left wing Brexit, it's a contradiction in terms. Corbyn is useless in the context of Brexit. It's like asking the Tories to defend the public sector workers. It ain't happening.

Some of that is undoubtedly true.

But you didn't answer my question. What would you advise him to do?

[welshbairn]

21 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Some of that is undoubtedly true.

But you didn't answer my question. What would you advise him to do?

 

He should accept there is no soft alternative to a hard brexit without honouring freedom of movement, and demand a referendum on whatever deal May negotiates. There's more immigration from outside the EU where we already have total control. if he feels the need to reduce immigration that's where the focus should be. He should either be honest and say he agrees 100% with the hardline Tory Brexiteers, or man up and let someone capable of fighting them take over the helm.

[pandarilla]

He should accept there is no soft alternative to a hard brexit without honouring freedom of movement, and demand a referendum on whatever deal May negotiates. There's more immigration from outside the EU where we already have total control. if he feels the need to reduce immigration that's where the focus should be. He should either be honest and say he agrees 100% with the hardline Tory Brexiteers, or man up and let someone capable of fighting them take over the helm.

Aye but the types of migrants matters in the areas which voted for brexit in large numbers - those pesky poles (a catch all term to sum up the entirety of eastern Europe).

He's playing a waiting game, in the hope that it all unravels. It's too early to go all out attack on brexit.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

 

Aye but the types of migrants matters in the areas which voted for brexit in large numbers - those pesky poles (a catch all term to sum up the entirety of eastern Europe).

He's playing a waiting game, in the hope that it all unravels. It's too early to go all out attack on brexit.

 

I don't think he is, he's a hardcore Brexiteer but too wimpy to admit it. He was utterly feeble in the run up to the referendum.

[pandarilla]

I don't think he is, he's a hardcore Brexiteer but too wimpy to admit it. He was utterly feeble in the run up to the referendum.

I disagree.

He refused to go all in with the remain campaign because he knew that the eu had some serious flaws. He's a left wing brexiteer and the eu is an incredibly neoliberal organisation.

I saw him on a sky question time thing and he handled all the questions in a balanced and entirely reasonable way. But you're right, he couldn't go big with the shouty rhetoric as he simply didn't agree with it.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, pandarilla said:

 

I disagree.

He refused to go all in with the remain campaign because he knew that the eu had some serious flaws. He's a left wing brexiteer and the eu is an incredibly neoliberal organisation.

I saw him on a sky question time thing and he handled all the questions in a balanced and entirely reasonable way. But you're right, he couldn't go big with the shouty rhetoric as he simply didn't agree with it.
 

 

With an in/out referendum there's no middle way. He chose the dark side. On Europe he could be on May's cabinet.

[pandarilla]

With an in/out referendum there's no middle way. He chose the dark side. On Europe he could be on May's cabinet.

Don't be ridiculous.

The nature of the campaign definitely did not suit him. But it didn't suit too many of those who were looking for genuine debate and thoughtful discussion of the issues. It was shouty soundbites all round.

[welshbairn]

20 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

Don't be ridiculous.

The nature of the campaign definitely did not suit him. But it didn't suit too many of those who were looking for genuine debate and thoughtful discussion of the issues. It was shouty soundbites all round.

 

Tell me where he disagrees with May on Brexit. He's voted with the Tories on every related matter since the referendum. He's publicly stated several times that he's in favour of ending freedom of movement which will inevitably mean a hard Brexit. No chance of a cosy Swiss or Norwegian deal, no say on the future of our continent and irrelevant internationally. You couldn't slide a fag paper between Corbyn and May on Europe or migration.

Edited July 7, 2017 by welshbairn

[sophia]

6 hours ago, pandarilla said:

 

Don't be ridiculous.

The nature of the campaign definitely did not suit him. But it didn't suit too many of those who were looking for genuine debate and thoughtful discussion of the issues. It was shouty soundbites all round.

 

In the world of bus signs, Trump and Ruthless, there is not much room for nuance these days.

In the context of a digital choice, there is none.

The ridiculous aspect is of this few weeks is the revisionist take on Corbyn.

He's more culpable than most for this nonsense of a situation.