Federlism/FFA/FFR

[Colkitto]

Is the very last card about to be played by the Unionists to deter Scottish independence?

Over the last couple of days all I've heard Unionists talk about is Federalism, Full fiscal autonomy, full fiscal responsibility.

I don't think it's a coincidence many Tory politicians are openly talking up this idea. I can see this being offered before the Holyrood election next year in a bid to stop the SNP putting indyref2 in their manifesto.

[~~~]

The UK is in it's final stages, doesn't matter what they offer. They might starve it off for a while, but the break up of the UK is inevitable

[Granny Danger]

If anything it is simply a stepping stone on the road to independence. Once folk see we can run our own economic affairs it will be another barrier removed for voting YES in the future.

[LongTimeLurker]

Full fiscal autonomy is not hugely different from independence with a currency union and open border. The reason a lot of Tories want it is EVEL related rather than as a ploy to avert indyref 2.

[Granny Danger]

Full fiscal autonomy is not hugely different from independence with a currency union and open border. The reason a lot of Tories want it is EVEL related rather than as a ploy to avert indyref 2.

If the Tories want the EVEL or its equivalent then they should establish an English Parliament.

[speckled tangerine]

Tell you what. This huge deficit under FFA will turn out to be nothing of the sort when our output/exports go through our books and not UKplcs. And with lots of good guys on committees and sniffing about making sure it's not a pisstake, it will work.

A wee hop from there to independence.

[Mr Bairn]

The only way the union can be saved is a fully federal UK where all of the devolved parliaments have FFA, and that includes either an English parliament or regional parliaments. Scotland wants FFA and if you don't give the same to the other nations than WM will turn into an English talking shop.

[LongTimeLurker]

If the Tories want the EVEL or its equivalent then they should establish an English Parliament.

That is pretty much their end game.

[speckled tangerine]

That is pretty much their end game.

Just saw Michael Forsyth on the news there more or less saying just that. He looked really fucking worried.

We've gone in twenty odd years from "taking stock" to taking the battle to London and hopefully, taking the final step.

I'm still shaking my head!

[invergowrie arab]

Interesting to go back over BBC England's election night coverage and listen to Andy marr.

He reckons the union is done, Cameron could be the last UK pm and that the move towards independence is now irreversible.

Similar to what madam eccose herself Winnie Ewing said when we got the parliament.

[FuzzyAffro]

Interesting to go back over BBC England's election night coverage and listen to Andy marr.

He reckons the union is done, Cameron could be the last UK pm and that the move towards independence is now irreversible.

Similar to what madam eccose herself Winnie Ewing said when we got the parliament.

Marr is one of the biggest seething Britnats there is

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I suspect they are gambling that if there is FFA and it all goes pear-shaped then the SNP will have no-one to blame but themselves.

If FFA does come in then the SNP will have the balancing act of being fiscally responsible while appeasing those who voted for them as the anti-austerity party.

Not an easy job. Having raised aspirations there might need to be some toning down of those aspirations when reality hits.

[sons superhero]

I did see that I thought I misheard it.

Edit: The Andrew Marr comment.

[Mr Bairn]

I suspect they are gambling that if there is FFA and it all goes pear-shaped then the SNP will have no-one to blame but themselves.

If FFA does come in then the SNP will have the balancing act of being fiscally responsible while appeasing those who voted for them as the anti-austerity party.

Not an easy job. Having raised aspirations there might need to be some toning down of those aspirations when reality hits.

I was saying on one of the other threads that the SNP seem to be the only party that can appeal to both right and left wing voters due to their competent economic management and protecting Scotland from the worst of the cuts.

I wonder if they're just that competent, or whether being in the union has helped them balance the books. I suspect the former, but it will be interesting to see how they manage with FFA.

[FuzzyAffro]

How things go with FFA is entirely dependent on what form FFA takes. The Tories will try to set it up as trap to make Scotland fail and independence ambitions fade. The SNP obviously will want everything devolved to allow them to make a success of it.

All comes down to revenue, if Scotland was to get FULL fiscal autonomy we would be better off, or certainly the last 34 years in a row so far we would. There may be the odd year here and there but on the whole in a better position.

But the Tories will try all sorts of sleekit ways to give Scotland less revenue than it should have, than is actually generated in Scotland, whereas the SNP will try and have everything included then just pay our share of debt and military etc.

Obviously the Tories are in the better position legislatively, so it would probably be quite a shit deal for us. But the SNP would really have to take it anyway, the day the SNP refuse a single power transfer from London they're done forever a bit like Labour with clause four.

Might be a better idea to push for Smith rejigged and enhanced then bribe Labour for a referendum in 2022/3. f**k the Tories anyway, any deal with them is toxic and weighted against us as they don't need our help.

[bowmore]

f**k the Tories anyway, any deal with them is toxic and weighted against us as they don't need our help.

They've played a blinder thus far. I am in no doubt that they'll continue as such.

The SNP could be a force for good for the UK or alternatively secure the Tories grip for a long time.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Logically I'd probably prefer Federalism, but independence would be such an irresistible,humiliating GIRFUY to Middle England and the British establishment.

[bowmore]

Here's an interesting analysis of the financial aspects linked to FFA that everyone can argue about

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/full-fiscal-autonomy-for-dummies.html

[AsimButtHitsASix]

The same FFA that the Tories wouldn't let us have an option for in the referendum?

Wonder if the Tories are playing the SNP or vice versa here...

[FuzzyAffro]

Here's an interesting analysis of the financial aspects linked to FFA that everyone can argue about

http://chokkablog.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/full-fiscal-autonomy-for-dummies.html

Its interesting enough but falls into the same old trap, probably deliberately, of thinking 'oil revenues' means the tax on the profits of oil companies. When infact it means all revenues generated due to oil and gas. It puts the figure this year at £600 million, which is laughable, its tens of billions every year.

It has to include all taxes generated by the oil and gas industry, then the picture looks very different.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-30831718

"A report for the industry body Oil and Gas UK last year estimated the sector is worth about £35bn to the UK economy."

This is one of the main reasons the UK was so utterly desperate to keep us, and your article is a good example of the kind of sleekit games and lies that will be played to make FFA have the affect of making Scotland worse off. When if it was genuine FFA we would clearly be much better off.

He also constantly mentions statements made by the yes campaign and challenges them, but never once mentions statements made by the no camp and doesn't challenge them.