DrewDon Posted January 27, 2016 Share Posted January 27, 2016 It wasn't even remotely relevant. When Blair was in charge of Labour, did he have swathes of Labour centrists telling every media source that would listen how utterly shite he was? That Corbyn disobeyed the whip under Blair (as he has done all his political career - a fact to be admired I think) is neither hither nor thither in relation to the utter wankers to the Labour right. Try criticising Tories more and Corbyn less. You may just get people to listen. No, because Blair tended to successfully command support from the PLP. Despite his multiple faults, he also possessed the advantages of regularly scoring highly in opinion polls and winning multiple elections. On the first point, Corbyn currently isn't performing strongly enough; on the second, time will tell but it's not looking too rosy. What are the issues on which you wish for dissenting MPs to start supporting Corbyn? A power-sharing arrangement for the Falklands? Unilateral nuclear disarmament, which is against current Labour Party policy? I'm sure most Labour MPs disappointed in the leadership want to get behind Corbyn, but he has to give them something to work with. It's also worth noting that the vast majority of those serving in his Shadow Cabinet didn't vote for Corbyn to be leader, so it's a nonsense to suggest that everybody in the PLP is opposing him at every turn. If they were, they wouldn't have agreed to abide by collective responsibility under his leadership. I will support Jeremy Corbyn at the ballot box. I suspect that's more than you will be able to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted January 28, 2016 Share Posted January 28, 2016 I will support Jeremy Corbyn at the ballot box. I suspect that's more than you will be able to say. You are correct to suspect that. I will continue to find Labour's implosion amusing as you, kind of as I expected, think there's nothing wrong in undermining Corbyn at every turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsenal till I die Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? I highly doubt many paid up Labour members would even consider voting Tory. I'm a fairly vocal critic of Corbyn but I'll be voting Labour if he is still leader at the next election. On your second point, do you really want to be in a situation where secret ballots are no longer used? I think that would be a very concerning route to take and would undermine a very important part of democracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrewDon Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? That's a patently ridiculous suggestion. Are you seriously opposed to secret ballots? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35528108 Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position on Trident. FTFY, Andy: Shadow home secretary Andy Burnham says it may be "impossible" for Labour to reach an agreed position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Is Corbyn keeping a low profile on purpose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Surely they will take a decision at Party conference and that will be the official Labour Party policy. That's the way it's always been done in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted February 9, 2016 Share Posted February 9, 2016 Surely they will take a decision at Party conference and that will be the official Labour Party policy. That's the way it's always been done in the past. According to ST, certain Labour MPs have declared they will continue to campaign for Trident renewal even if it become official party policy to oppose it. I wonder who they owe in the arms industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 10, 2016 Share Posted February 10, 2016 According to ST, certain Labour MPs have declared they will continue to campaign for Trident renewal even if it become official party policy to oppose it. I wonder who they owe in the arms industry. Great reason for deselection. If Labour ever wants to re-establish itself I think deselection is inevitable. If Corbyn had any guts he would publically agree. BTW I don't think they 'owe'the arms industry, it's just that they are right-wing arseholes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 I bet these twats will be secretly voting Tory to undermine him. Surely it's about time parties were given the right to find out if their members are voting for other parties to stop this happening? Do you mean voting at general or local elections? Voting will always, and should, be private, i.e. a secret ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Do you mean voting at general or local elections? Voting will always, and should, be private, i.e. a secret ballot. Unless you are Ruth Davidson, of course. She appears to be perfectly happy to use the signature checking part of the postal ballot as an opportunity to get a sneaky look at how postal voters have voted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Unless you are Ruth Davidson, of course. She appears to be perfectly happy to use the signature checking part of the postal ballot as an opportunity to get a sneaky look at how postal voters have voted. Could Davidson identify how individuals voted? Surely the postal votes are put in separate sealed envelopes with the signed declarations. The postal votes should then be opened and counted with the rest of the votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted February 11, 2016 Share Posted February 11, 2016 Could Davidson identify how individuals voted? Surely the postal votes are put in separate sealed envelopes with the signed declarations. The postal votes should then be opened and counted with the rest of the votes. I was being flippant about Ruthie & the postal ballot, of course. However, to prevent personation, no UK ballot is truly secret. If the returning officer needs to, they can match the ballot paper with the voter's name on the electoral roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Great reason for deselection. If Labour ever wants to re-establish itself I think deselection is inevitable. If Corbyn had any guts he would publically agree. BTW I don't think they 'owe'the arms industry, it's just that they are right-wing arseholes. For Jeremy Corbyn's entire parliamentary career he has opposed official party policy on nuclear weapons and actively campaigned and voted against it. But now Granny Danger, who openly hates the Labour Party, demands that MPs be deslected for supporting current Labour party policy and the manifesto they were elected on which is pro renewable of our nuclear deterrent. This is the kind of naked and vindictive hypocrisy that is supposed to endear the millions who voted Lib Dem or Tory but were thinking of voting Labour in the last election? No, Granny Danger like much of the Corbyn tendency hates and despises the majority of the electorate and wish to carve a party that is unelectable in marginal constituencies. Granny Danger will flannel around about Trident, but this is not really about Trident. Just the blatant hypocrisy and demands for an end to alternative opinions that would be a death knell for any mainstream party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 For Jeremy Corbyn's entire parliamentary career he has opposed official party policy on nuclear weapons and actively campaigned and voted against it. But now Granny Danger, who openly hates the Labour Party, demands that MPs be deslected for supporting current Labour party policy and the manifesto they were elected on which is pro renewable of our nuclear deterrent. This is the kind of naked and vindictive hypocrisy that is supposed to endear the millions who voted Lib Dem or Tory but were thinking of voting Labour in the last election? No, Granny Danger like much of the Corbyn tendency hates and despises the majority of the electorate and wish to carve a party that is unelectable in marginal constituencies. Granny Danger will flannel around about Trident, but this is not really about Trident. Just the blatant hypocrisy and demands for an end to alternative opinions that would be a death knell for any mainstream party. Pity you hadn't read my post more carefully. I started by saying that the decision on Trident should be taken by Labour Party conference and then, if the decision is to oppose renewal and MPs refuse to accept that, they should be deselected. It would be unreasonable to deselect them if they were supporting Labour Party policy. With regard to hating a despising much of the electorate, I would remind you that over 50% of those who voted in the 2015 General Election in Scotland supported parties who opposed the renewal of Trident. That is despite the mindset that has been in place for years that people in general will not support unilateralism. I believe folk in rUK would also be more willing to support it if a cogent argument was put forward by an established political party. The Labour Party will only become relevant once more when it has re-established it's credentials and offers folk a real alternative, so long as it's Tory-Lite this will not happen. For those who argue people in rUK don't want to support a left wing party just look at Bernire Saunders in the U.S., a country with a far greater right wing political history. Millions of Democrat voters, particularly under 40s, are supporting a man who describes himself as a Socialist, a near swear word in U.S. politics. It seems they want real change and are prepared to be open minded to someone who is pitching his politics firmly on the left of anything else that is on offer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Millions of Democrat voters, particularly under 40s, are supporting a man who describes himself as a Socialist, a near swear word in U.S. politics. It seems they want real change and are prepared to be open minded to someone who is pitching his politics firmly on the left of anything else that is on offer. Corporate America won't let it happen. Democratic ticket will be bought for Clinton and she will go on and trump the presidential vote. Pun intended Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 Corporate America won't let it happen. Democratic ticket will be bought for Clinton and she will go on and trump the presidential vote. Pun intended Maybe so but it's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that if large-scale, public support can be generated in the U.S. for a candidate that is far more left-of-centre than the norm then it can certainly happen in the UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorlomin Posted February 12, 2016 Share Posted February 12, 2016 I started by saying that the decision on Trident should be taken by Labour Party conference and then, if the decision is to oppose renewal and MPs refuse to accept that, they should be deselected. It would be unreasonable to deselect them if they were supporting Labour Party policy. So people should be deselected for doing exactly what Corbyn has done for 30 years? The intolerance of the far left is no surprise to those of us who have tried hard to work with them in the past. I would remind you that over 50% of those who voted in the 2015 General Election in Scotland Stop being such a parochial yokel. They need to win marginals across the UK not just Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmothecat Posted February 13, 2016 Share Posted February 13, 2016 Deselection isn't the solution. There are still a lot of moderate Labour members and supporters and deselecting candidates for having moderate views will run the risk of alienating those supporters. Corbyn will face the accusations of hypocrisy. How can he demand loyalty and allow 'Rebels' to be deselected when he has spent most of his parliamentary career being anything but loyal to the leadership? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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