Holyrood '16 polls and predictions

[Fide]

PS The SNP are not social democratic but that is a completely different debate.

 

Yes they are.  Wind your neck in.

 

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Yes they are. Wind your neck in.

Only took you 4 days to reply - losing your touch Fide?

[BerwickMad]

That sounds like an argument for one world government to me - not particularly for remaining as a northern minority of a state which has returned right-wing governments far, far more often than otherwise.

The bizarreness is in their attacks on the UK government and virtually everything it does coming at the same time as their support for continued UK governance. It's rhubarb. A party can't present itself as pro-UK but keep flapping its gums about how evil the policies coming out of the UK are without looking a bit shaky. I know thhe argument is "we love the UK but only if we're running it", but that doesn't really work when you're an accounting unit.

I still don't agree with your argument. The North East of England is arguably more left wing than Scotland as a whole but I don't think it makes anyone less left wing because they don't campaign for self government for the North East of England.

You will have people on the right in Scotland who believe in independence, knowing full well that the policies effecting them should it happen will have less influence from the right. It's not hypocritical. It's easy to separate left/right thinking from Scottish nationalism.

[BerwickMad]

The sound quality of the Kezia bits must be up there with Tavish Scott's 2011 "wind tunnel" PPB. What a bunch of amateurs.

Corbyn had a similar one not too long ago with barely understandable quality when he spoke. They either keep fucking up, or its 'the plan'.

[Fide]

Only took you 4 days to reply - losing your touch Fide?

 

Easter weekend, old bean.

 

I'm afraid family time prevented me from enraged online apoplexy.

 

[Antlion]

I still don't agree with your argument. The North East of England is arguably more left wing than Scotland as a whole but I don't think it makes anyone less left wing because they don't campaign for self government for the North East of England.

You will have people on the right in Scotland who believe in independence, knowing full well that the policies effecting them should it happen will have less influence from the right. It's not hypocritical. It's easy to separate left/right thinking from Scottish nationalism.

The north east of England isn't a country in a political union with a larger, historically right wing country that chooses its governments for it. The north east, as far as I'm aware, sees itself as very much English. Scotland tends not to, because it isn't. You might not buy into these things yourself, but you can't just disregard their reality.

Would you tell a Portuguese person that their country should be incorporated into a new state with Spain, in which the Spanish electorate choose the sovereign governments (by dint of numbers); and if those governments are opposed by the people of Portugal, they have no cause for complaint because little pockets of Spain oppose them too, and the Portuguese should simply see their country as analogous to these Spanish regions?

[Wee Willie]

The north east of England isn't a country in a political union with a larger, historically right wing country that chooses its governments for it. The north east, as far as I'm aware, sees itself as very much English. Scotland tends not to, because it isn't. You might not buy into these things yourself, but you can't just disregard their reality.

Would you tell a Portuguese person that their country should be incorporated into a new state with Spain, in which the Spanish electorate choose the sovereign governments (by dint of numbers); and if those governments are opposed by the people of Portugal, they have no cause for complaint because little pockets of Spain oppose them too, and the Portuguese should simply see their country as analogous to these Spanish regions?

guid explanation and analogy.

[Peppino Impastato]

I still don't agree with your argument. The North East of England is arguably more left wing than Scotland as a whole but I don't think it makes anyone less left wing because they don't campaign for self government for the North East of England.

You will have people on the right in Scotland who believe in independence, knowing full well that the policies effecting them should it happen will have less influence from the right. It's not hypocritical. It's easy to separate left/right thinking from Scottish nationalism.

What is it with you brittnats, Scotland isn't a part ofeEngland so can't be compared with parts of England. It can be compared with England, n Ireland and Wales not any part thereof.

[renton]

Scottish Greens announcing their tax policies this morning (yeah, I know)...

 

Income tax, they propose splitting the 20% band in two, with an 18% band for the first £7,500 above the personal allowance and 22% for income above £19,000. They reckon that means anyone making less than the average wage will be better off. Income above £43,000 will be taxed at 43% and the top rate will kick in at £150,000 and be charged at 60%.

 

They look to have abandoned the LVT in favour of a property tax as well.

 

They reckon that will bring in an extra £331 million in income tax a year (though it's doubtful they have factored real behaviours in there) and just shy of £500 million p.a. by 2021 from their new property tax.

[renton]

https://twitter.com/GlennBBC/status/714758038561955842

 

That's the Greens property tax scheme, effectively goes all the way in revaluing properties and means the new property tax would infact become progressive (the higher band house owners paying proportionately more on their property than those in lower bands) to do that they had to make the ratio of tax from top to bottom earners greater than 15 to 1. Infact by year 5 it'll be 17.8 to 1. The current CT ratio is 3 to 1. Under the SNP that'll go to 3.7 to 1 and under Labour it'll go to 4.5 to 1(though their plan probably ends up reducing the tax take from CT) the Greens is by far the most progressive and raises more money. Though I doubt they'll get many votes from people who'll pay more in property tax, year on year for 5 years in a pretty steep incline.

[BerwickMad]

The north east of England isn't a country in a political union with a larger, historically right wing country that chooses its governments for it. The north east, as far as I'm aware, sees itself as very much English. Scotland tends not to, because it isn't. You might not buy into these things yourself, but you can't just disregard their reality.

Would you tell a Portuguese person that their country should be incorporated into a new state with Spain, in which the Spanish electorate choose the sovereign governments (by dint of numbers); and if those governments are opposed by the people of Portugal, they have no cause for complaint because little pockets of Spain oppose them too, and the Portuguese should simply see their country as analogous to these Spanish regions?

So it isn't a left/right issue, it's an argument about independence. Thanks.

[Peppino Impastato]

So it isn't a left/right issue, it's an argument about independence. Thanks.

T's both, left/right and a glaring democratic deficit which England doesn't have. I

[BerwickMad]

T's both, left/right and a glaring democratic deficit which England doesn't have. I

Please explain where the democratic deficit is?

Simply, it isn't contradictory for Scottish Labour to push left wing policies while wanting to stay part of the U.K. that on a whole, is more to the right than them. It also isn't contradictory to be right wing and want an independent Scotland which would most likely be to the left of them.

[renton]

https://greens.scot/blog/7-ways-the-greens-tax-plan-will-make-scotland-fairer

 

So the Greens intend in the long run to move towards a Land Value Tax, as well as a Universal Basic Income.

 

Not often you see the impact on GINI coefficients on tax tables either.

[Peppino Impastato]

Please explain where the democratic deficit is?

Simply, it isn't contradictory for Scottish Labour to push left wing policies while wanting to stay part of the U.K. that on a whole, is more to the right than them. It also isn't contradictory to be right wing and want an independent Scotland which would most likely be to the left of them.

er....scotland. and n ireland,and Wales. Do you really need this explained to You? Have you been under a rock the last 300 years?

[BerwickMad]

er....scotland. and n ireland,and Wales. Do you really need this explained to You? Have you been under a rock the last 300 years?

They are names of countries. That doesn't explain how there is a democratic deficit.

[Peppino Impastato]

They are names of countries. That doesn't explain how there is a democratic deficit.

troll found

[bob the tank]

They are names of countries. That doesn't explain how there is a democratic deficit.

Percentage of MPs in Westminster, as simple as that. Oh, and if the NE of England is so left wing, isn't Berwick a Tory seat?

[Fide]

They are names of countries. That doesn't explain how there is a democratic deficit.

 

 

Yet we're governed by a Conservative government.

[BerwickMad]

Percentage of MPs in Westminster, as simple as that. Oh, and if the NE of England is so left wing, isn't Berwick a Tory seat?

That's representative to the population of Scotland generally.