Antlion Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes and then no. There is no such thing as a permanent mandate. No government can bind its successor. An example is the EU refusing to accept the result when the Irish voted No to the Lisbon Treaty. The people did not vote the way that the Eurocrats and Irish government wanted. They were forced to vote again. If Britain votes to Leave, there is no legal requirement for the Government to do so. We, like Irish, could be required to vote again until we votes to Remain. The EU elite has never accepted a democratic No for an answer to a referendum question. I've never understood the idea that giving people a second vote somehow makes them magically vote the opposite way. If the Irish people didn't like the revised terms offered in the second vote, they could have voted "no" again. If people don't like or want something, they'll reject it as many times as it's offered. Of the UK votes to leave and doesn't, that's not the EU elite at fault - it's the people that the "leave" vote would ostensibly be trying to return full power too. There's a scary thought. And this isn't directed at you, but I get heartily sick of UKIPers whining incessantly about the EU and how the UK needs to have power returned to it. Very rarely do they concede that it is the people the UK has elected that have built up the EU as an ideological and political project, and ensured it has many of the democratic deficiencies that it does. The UK isn't some bastion of democracy at odds with the EU's anti-democratic thrust. The former is an architect of the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Good post actually. It also sets out why Scotland will eventually revert to its own nationhood. The pillars which managed those of influence are of no significant consequence any more. Even as recently as 50 years ago they were - the church had a genuine influence on Scottish cultural and operational delivery. Education was seen to be different and so was the legal system. Now the Kirk has negligible influence and any legal or educational differences are almost seen as anomalies. Given the shift in Scottish culture and perception of identity in the last 40 - 50 years, it's almost inconceivable that Scotland won't be independent within the next 20 - 30 years or sooner. Particularly given the age demographic of the No vote and the fact that the queen is in her twilight years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I've never understood the idea that giving people a second vote somehow makes them magically vote the opposite way. If the Irish people didn't like the revised terms offered in the second vote, they could have voted "no" again. If people don't like or want something, they'll reject it as many times as it's offered. Of the UK votes to leave and doesn't, that's not the EU elite at fault - it's the people that the "leave" vote would ostensibly be trying to return full power too. There's a scary thought. And this isn't directed at you, but I get heartily sick of UKIPers whining incessantly about the EU and how the UK needs to have power returned to it. Very rarely do they concede that it is the people the UK has elected that have built up the EU as an ideological and political project, and ensured it has many of the democratic deficiencies that it does. The UK isn't some bastion of democracy at odds with the EU's anti-democratic thrust. The former is an architect of the latter. The Irish were given "concessions" and subjected to their own version of Project Fear. To be fair, Farage has always said that the three"main"parties have been supporters of the EU's ideological project for political union. Blair and Mandelson were at the heart of it and are now reaping the financial rewards of multi-million fortunes. It is disgusting that Farage and his cronies have made immigration the core issue of the Leave campaign. Farage was a libertarian on most issues but money, i.e. the donors, determines UKIP policy now. Before UKIP, the democratic Left and the unions were the main campaigners against EU membership. Bob Crow's No2EU party should and could have done better in the Euro Elections but it was a shambles. The NF and BNP were just bit players, convenient hate figures for the media and Europhile elite to use to smear anyone who opposed their plans. Cameron and Osborne are very strong supporters of EU membership. That's been clearly demonstrated by Downing Street's nasty briefings against Leave supporters such as Gove and Boris. The referendum will split the Tory Party and it may not recover. Corbyn is playing a waiting game and should benefit electorally. However, the Left's destructive streak and tendency to split should not be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 I think your allowed more than one. Certainly FPTP in a multi party system is going to throw up some pretty terrible over compensations for vote share vs seats gained. It's a real concern, but the eradication of that wouldn't remove the influence England has in choosing a government for Scotland. Federalism is not an obvious solution given the disparity in populations either. Asymmetric Federalism can work if it's done properly. All the Federal solutions so far have been along the 4 country Federalism model which would never work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Back on topic please. https://www.holyrood.com/articles/comment/professor-john-curtice-state-scotlands-main-parties-going-election Analysis: The election looks like a battle amongst a set of also-rans for any electoral scraps left behind by a dominant SNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Dugdale has missed the boat. She's trying to play the anti-austerity card that won the SNP so many Westminster seats last year, apparently not realising that that was for a Westminster election - you know, where austerity is decided because that's where the Treasury and purse strings are held. Trying to promote a party as an anti-austerity party in the devolved parliament amounts to being a "let's make you guys pay for the austerity cuts being made by our political superiors" party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 Yes and then no. There is no such thing as a permanent mandate. No government can bind its successor. An example is the EU refusing to accept the result when the Irish voted No to the Lisbon Treaty. The people did not vote the way that the Eurocrats and Irish government wanted. They were forced to vote again. If Britain votes to Leave, there is no legal requirement for the Government to do so. We, like Irish, could be required to vote again until we votes to Remain. The EU elite has never accepted a democratic No for an answer to a referendum question. Ironically, Lisbon explicitly recognises the right of a Member State to leave the EU at Article 50 -the first time this has actually been recognised the EU treaties. Cameron is free to ignore the result, of course, but he will pay the price if he does. I don't think we'll be voting again if "the wrong answer" is given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 29, 2016 Share Posted March 29, 2016 What a shock, Jackie the Hutt is back on the BBC struggling to explain Labour's "propoosals" on tax, and warbling about "thoose who can afford it paying a little bit moore" (because that line worked so well for Jim Murphy). Btw can anyone explain where the f**k her accent is from? The "oonly" explanation I can think is that it's a private school on Tatooine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 What a shock, Jackie the Hutt is back on the BBC struggling to explain Labour's "propoosals" on tax, and warbling about "thoose who can afford it paying a little bit moore" (because that line worked so well for Jim Murphy). Btw can anyone explain where the f**k her accent is from? The "oonly" explanation I can think is that it's a private school on Tatooine. Her accent is native to her home planet, Nal Hutta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Have it on good authority here that Jackie Baillie is fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Have it on good authority here that Jackie Baillie is fat. And has an old wif- Wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Labour u turn on there 100 quid rebate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossbill Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 It was always a completely unworkable plan - they were proposing to put in place a nationwide, local council run system for assessing income and issuing rebates, for a single year before the power over tax bands was devolved. It was pretty obvious why they were never keen on giving any details of how it would work - it simply wouldn't. However, dropping the plan makes them hopelessly incompetent and just gives the other parties more ammunition to rip them to pieces. Pity there is no FMQs tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 It was always a completely unworkable plan - they were proposing to put in place a nationwide, local council run system for assessing income and issuing rebates, for a single year before the power over tax bands was devolved. It was pretty obvious why they were never keen on giving any details of how it would work - it simply wouldn't. However, dropping the plan makes them hopelessly incompetent and just gives the other parties more ammunition to rip them to pieces. Pity there is no FMQs tomorrow. No coincidence, I should imagine. The plan being dropped has been dropped after the two opening debates and after FMQs has ended because it can be done as quietly as possible. The BBC News, the Daily Record, et alia, will hardly criticise wee Kez and her merry band of wankshafts for this latest fuckupery, so they can dismiss it now safe in the knowledge that they'll face no hostile criticism (or derisive) laughter outside social media. Now imagine UK Labour had done similar - endless days of lambasting from the press. But for the wee North British branch who are at least preferable to a party that's pro-Scottish statehood? Best just brush it aside quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppino Impastato Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 No coincidence, I should imagine. The plan being dropped has been dropped after the two opening debates and after FMQs has ended because it can be done as quietly as possible. The BBC News, the Daily Record, et alia, will hardly criticise wee Kez and her merry band of wankshafts for this latest fuckupery, so they can dismiss it now safe in the knowledge that they'll face no hostile criticism (or derisive) laughter outside social media. Now imagine UK Labour had done similar - endless days of lambasting from the press. But for the wee North British branch who are at least preferable to a party that's pro-Scottish statehood? Best just brush it aside quickly. Spot on as always, also imagine the SNP did that the howls over all forms of print and broadcast media would be deafening for weeks. What a disgusting unitary state we live in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owsley Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 STV news lead with this tonight BBC Reporting Scotland bury it after their third story, another "let's bash the SNP over another indyref ", with Glenn Campbell stoicly refusing to mention the words "100 quid " and "rebate". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 STV news lead with this tonight BBC Reporting Scotland bury it after their third story, another "let's bash the SNP over another indyref ", with Glenn Campbell stoicly refusing to mention the words "100 quid " and "rebate". Yes quite astonishing report from wee Glen on Reporting Scotland. It was as blatant pro-Labour bias from the BBC as you could possibly get Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Im up in aberdeen it got decent coverage on the local stv news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 April fools kind of lose their impact when papers pout their headlines up the night before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogmc Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 April fools kind of lose their impact when papers pout their headlines up the night before. Straight away reminds me of ricky gervais in the episode of the office when they're doing staff training....'go get the guitar'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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