DeeTillEhDeh Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 I was referring to SNP candidates. And as I've said elsewhere I'll always vote SNP at least until independence. So your question is irrelevant. "I'll vote for anybody " is what you said not "I'll always vote SNP". Backtracking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Party politics is a lot more complicated. Unless you are a complete loser fanboy, you are never going to agree with a party's entire manifesto. But there should be basic norms that everyone progressive agrees both in terms of party and individual. The SNP have nothing objectionable in their manifesto. They have a number of hugely objectionable candidates. No one decent and progressive could countenance voting for a John Mason, Ewing or Cunningham or Elaine Smith. Whatever your views on their umbrella party. You are positively enabling bigots if you do so. SNP or Labour voters in their constituencies should vote for other candidates. But surely the end justifies the means. I want independence and I'll vote for anybody that offers that irrespective of their opinions on any other policy. That was the point I was making. That's just bollocks. I would hold my nose and vote for any of the disgusting bigots named because I believe freeing us from Westminster rule would reduce a tremendous amount of suffering. My line in terms of individual candidates would be fairly difficult to reach in that regard. I also consider holding repulsive views on homosexuals far less harmful than say, killing hundreds of thousands of people in an illegal war, or putting poor and disabled people further into poverty. You obviously think these things are ok though. That's my attitude. The end does justify the means. If Scotland were independent I would agree with your assessment that I'm a disgrace. But as things stand just now I don't have any choice on who I vote for. I've wanted independence since 1953 and I'll vote for anyone who can deliver it - scum (your word) or no. I would have thought it was self-evident which party I'm referring to. "I'll vote for anybody " is what you said not "I'll always vote SNP". Backtracking? Are you no Ad Lib in disguise. Looking at my avatar will tell ye who I support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menzel Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 "Anyone who can deliver it" is not a political party. People who have an opposing view are not all Ad Libs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 "Anyone who can deliver it" is not a political party. People who have an opposing view are not all Ad Libs. In the context of where I wrote it and which poitical party I support I think it is. I don't think it is 'opposing views' but mair like nitpicking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menzel Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Willie I think you've just realised yourself how ridiculous your argument was and are now trying to distance yourself from it. You're allowed to rephrase yourself and say you only mean it for the SNP you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Thought it was clear Willie meant he would vote for anybody that represented the SNP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ad Lib Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 "Anyone who can deliver it" is not a political party. People who have an opposing view are not all Ad Libs. They would be better people if they were though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Willie I think you've just realised yourself how ridiculous your argument was and are now trying to distance yourself from it. You're allowed to rephrase yourself and say you only mean it for the SNP you know. Whit's the big deal? Why are you so persistent? I would have thought that any reasonable person, looking at my avatar, would accept that I'm referring to the SNP. If DeeTillEhDeh or you or anybody else thinks different then that's your prerogative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Thought it was clear Willie meant he would vote for anybody that represented the SNP. Gracias... They would be better people if they were though. ...and nae comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loondave1 Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 Gracias... ...and nae comment [/quote Fukc this mobile phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetwiseHercules Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Looks like the Ad Lib brand is toxic here on P&B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I have to say, all the No voting heroes and Ad Lib must feel just super about themselves about their constant ganging up on Wee Willie. Every time he posts he's met with a barrage of semantics, pedantism and abject shite. They must all feel so proud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Not keen on Mhairi Blacks article in the Sunday Herald today. 'If you believe in independence you risk everything unless you give both votes to the SNP.' Seems fair enough to me. Oor Mhairi knows her onions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StreetwiseHercules Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Not keen on Mhairi Blacks article in the Sunday Herald today. 'If you believe in independence you risk everything unless you give both votes to the SNP.'She's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Not keen on Mhairi Blacks article in the Sunday Herald today. 'If you believe in independence you risk everything unless you give both votes to the SNP.' What specifically do you object to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The 'vote green, get unionist!!!, vibe. Very Labour.But it's a perfectly legitimate point to make that if you want to see an SNP majority then there is absolutely no guarantee this will be achieved on FPTP seats.The Greens and others peddled the falsehood that if you don't vote SNP on the list they are waiting in the wings for that seat. Regarde Final list seat numbers Mid Scot&Fife 2011 SNP 12965,Lab 12924,Tory 12152,Green 10914. Final list seat numbers NE Scotland 2011 SNP 12795,Tory 12560, Lab 10973,Green 10407. The margins of error across a region where perhaps half a million votes were cast is tiny. If you like the greens vote for them. If you think the SNP are guaranteed a majority on FPTP and regional votes are a free play it's a hugely risky strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fide Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Not a shock to be honest It's true, though. ; While we're on the subject of Mhairi Black, have a look at the replies to this tweet: https://twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/723810758677635072 It's actually quite breathtacking how ill-educated and vitriolic your average No voter is. So much more invective from those who voted No compared to Yes voters. Why the incandescent rage? They won. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 The 'vote green, get unionist!!!, vibe. Very Labour. Well if you 'tactically' vote for a party that isn't competitive for winning the (usually final) list seat in question then yes, a unionist party is consequently more likely to get that seat instead*. Legit Green voters have always been around and they'll still win some, probably a couple more seats anyway. Thinking that your vote will be tactically effective towards them doing so is dubious, which was stoked up by a laughable Sunday Herald article that had no basis in fact. * It depends on the regional context with the Greens; anyone voting for RISE or other utter no-marks are entirely wasting their vote everywhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 I'd rather see the SNP argue on the merits of voting for them (which they are doing tbf) rather than playing scaremongering over the possibilities of what happens if you don't vote for them with both votes. Labour used similar tactics with success for decades, but I'd rather the SNP avoided those negative tactics. In principle I would agree but given the Herald gave over last weeks edition to entirely misrepresent John Curtice saying SNP regional votes are wasted I am pleased we have responded. There is a lot of uninformed and deliberately misinforming shot spoken about AMS. TBF to the Greens I'm not actually aware of much coming from them in this regard. It's the 57 varieties of trotskyism and their twiteratti enablers that seem to shout about it the most. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bairn Posted April 24, 2016 Share Posted April 24, 2016 Given that the SNP list vote gets divided by 10 before they even start assigning seats I think it's a fair shout to suggest that voting SNP on the list is as good as spooling your ballot sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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