The Greenock Morton Thread - It's Better Than Yours

[Alibi]

I think Imrie is playing a very clever game. Leaving everyone else believing we don't have a credible title-challenging squad when in reality we're not that far off it as last season showed.  Imrie has a pretty good record so far of getting the best out of our squad, and I'd expect him to manage the same this season. Last year we had a couple of duds (Kabia for example, and Easdale) and he remedied that as soon as he could.  I expect him to strengthen when the loan season starts, but this year we have a far better initial starting point with a fairly settled core to our squad.  Of course he wants more funds - we would all like that - and I'd trust him not to waste anything he does get, but I'm fairly sure he knows what he's doing.  Let's see how the manager of the month trophies pile up this season.

[FrankReynolds]

How was Efe Ambrose for you lot? Seen he was at Celtic for a period of time and then Hibs? He’s getting on a bit now but looks like a great signing for us and an exciting one. Do you think he could still play at a higher level? Read somewhere he was one of your best players and you did end up doing quite well considering. You were really punching above your weight, was this mostly down to Ambrose? 
 

 

[19QOS19]

6 minutes ago, FrankReynolds said:

How was Efe Ambrose for you lot? Seen he was at Celtic for a period of time and then Hibs? He’s getting on a bit now but looks like a great signing for us and an exciting one. Do you think he could still play at a higher level? Read somewhere he was one of your best players and you did end up doing quite well considering. You were really punching above your weight, was this mostly down to Ambrose? 
 

 

[ClydeTon]

12 minutes ago, FrankReynolds said:

How was Efe Ambrose for you lot? Seen he was at Celtic for a period of time and then Hibs? He’s getting on a bit now but looks like a great signing for us and an exciting one. Do you think he could still play at a higher level? Read somewhere he was one of your best players and you did end up doing quite well considering. You were really punching above your weight, was this mostly down to Ambrose? 
 

 

He was a good cover for the injured O'Connor, until he did an Efe(™) at Celtic Park. Never seemed to recover in his few games after that.

I think he'll be alright for League One, considering his age.

[Vril]

33 minutes ago, FrankReynolds said:

How was Efe Ambrose for you lot? Seen he was at Celtic for a period of time and then Hibs? He’s getting on a bit now but looks like a great signing for us and an exciting one. Do you think he could still play at a higher level? Read somewhere he was one of your best players and you did end up doing quite well considering. You were really punching above your weight, was this mostly down to Ambrose? 
 

 

Good player and a really good guy too.  Having someone of that experience around can only be a good thing for your squad.  
 

He did a good job for us when he came in but didn’t feature much in the latter part of the season and in no way would I say our good season was just down to him.  

I wouldn’t be too concerned about his age - at no point did he show anything that would suggest his fitness is an issue.  

He always has been liable to have the odd bombscare moment but overall I would say he brought more to the team than he took away.  In particular his composure in picking a pass when playing out of defence was a class above what’s usually seen at championship level.  I think he will do fine for you guys and I wish him well.

[19QOS19]

6 minutes ago, Vril said:

  In particular his composure in picking a pass when playing out of defence was a class above what’s usually seen at championship level.  I think he will do fine for you guys and I wish him well.

That's encouraging to hear as MB seems to want us to do that. We played from the back almost exclusively against Motherwell. If he's capable of being composed on the ball under that pressure he'll fit in nicely at the back. 

[madton]

Big man was mostly solid for us and should do well in league 1. 

When Baird got injured I did wonder if Dougie would reach out with an SOS.

Between you lot, Cove and the Accies, you should have enough to keep Falkirk down 1 more season.

 

[vikingTON]

6 hours ago, Vril said:

I think that Imrie knows exactly what he is doing.  Being underdogs and setting expectations low definitely suits us.  Clearly we need a couple more players in and while money is tight, we definitely have the resources to bring in another 1 or 2 plus loans.

At the same time I think his current actions are a way of putting a bit of extra pressure on the board to release some additional funds for players.  The fact that so many of us are dissecting the current situation is also putting pressure on them from the fans too.  I don’t see anything beyond this to suggest that there’s any sort of major issue behind the scenes.

There's just one crucial problem with this argument: where are the board going to find these additional funds from? They set a budget with the purpose of ensuring (all going reasonably well) that we will break-even over the 23-24 campaign. While the current board should absolutely be scrutinised like any other, there's nothing to suggest that they're sitting on a fucking pile of cash, refusing to release it for the first team squad because Reasons. 

All the media antics and gurning on forums doesn't change the reality that that's the only way that the club can operate as a sustainable business. 

Edited July 25, 2023 by vikingTON

[Otis Blue]

Cheers for the feedback on Efe folks, fairly encouraging ... for our level anyway. Bartley has a very young squad so Efe's experience should help. Of course we know about his odd bombscare moments ... so he should fit in well at Palmerston.

[ClydeTon]

1 hour ago, madton said:

Big man was mostly solid for us and should do well in league 1. 

When Baird got injured I did wonder if Dougie would reach out with an SOS.

Between you lot, Cove and the Accies, you should have enough to keep Falkirk down 1 more season.

 

Bold to suggest those sides will be needed to keep Falkirk down, and that they won't just do it themselves.

[Vril]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

There's just one crucial problem with this argument: where are the board going to find these additional funds from? They set a budget with the purpose of ensuring (all going reasonably well) that we will break-even over the 23-24 campaign. While the current board should absolutely be scrutinised like any other, there's nothing to suggest that they're sitting on a fucking pile of cash, refusing to release it for the first team squad because Reasons. 

All the media antics and gurning on forums doesn't change the reality that that's the only way that the club can operate as a sustainable business. 

Just to be clear I’m not suggesting more funds are or are not available to release should the board decide to.   I’m just saying that as I see it, Imrie is at the very least trying to lobby them for more funds than he currently has (this would at least explain his demeanour of late).

I do not know what the clubs current cash at bank is, or what our weekly balance sheet is based on current costs so obviously I (and everyone else out with the club) can only guess as to what we can/cannot afford.

Even if we do have some spare cash available and are choosing not to give it all to the manager at this time, I’m ok with that as well.  In the current climate it’s prudent to have a bit of slack available in case you need to deal with an unforeseen situation.  It’s also worth factoring in that with the league looking particularly tough, this might not be the best season to go “all in” budget wise.

[The Ghost of B A R P]

My guess — guess — is that it’s less about overall budget and more about the specifics of how — and how soon — it’s spent. There’s every possibility Imrie has wanted to sign someone on wages the board have refused to sanction; and the experience of last year, when we kept a bit in reserve to good effect, will (maybe rightly) be making them cautious.

Either way, I’m glad we have a manager who is clearly desperate to continue improving the squad… and I trust him to use what he does get more than just about any manager since Tommy McLean.

If we sign another two defenders and a keeper and punt Garrity, that would give us a squad of 18 who are all at least credible options in their main position.

That will be enough to make us competitive as the league gets under way. Wee cherry on top from the loan market (or free agents) and we’ll be right in the mix.

[vikingTON]

13 hours ago, Vril said:

Just to be clear I’m not suggesting more funds are or are not available to release should the board decide to.   I’m just saying that as I see it, Imrie is at the very least trying to lobby them for more funds than he currently has (this would at least explain his demeanour of late).

But you can only lobby effectively (as you claimed Imrie is doing) if you actually have leverage - if there's a realistic solution that the board can be pushed into enacting. Passive-aggressive media tactics from the manager and all the complaining in the world within the fanbase do not change the reality that if the money's not there in the budget right now, it's not there. The club can't magic it up from thin air and should not 'speculate' i.e. spend money it does not have. 

It's quite clear that the manager is unhappy with the budget but I don't see how he's any closer to getting that resolved to his own satisfaction. Funds will likely be released if we progress out of the LC group, but given Baird's injury he's probably going to wave goodbye to 'Frankie Deane' and move on regardless. 

Edited July 26, 2023 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

13 hours ago, The Ghost of B A R P said:

If we sign another two defenders and a keeper and punt Garrity, that would give us a squad of 18 who are all at least credible options in their main position.

That will be enough to make us competitive as the league gets under way. Wee cherry on top from the loan market (or free agents) and we’ll be right in the mix.

It will only keep us in the mix (assuming in and around the promotion play-offs) if we get fortunate with injuries. On reflection, I think we were a bit lucky to not suffer many long-term absences last season - and the one notable absence (Quitongo) could have been expected and was not in a key area of the park. His attributes were missed of course, but it's not the same as the issues caused by Baird's injury right now. 

If we end up with a larger and more serious injury list this season then we will probably regress in terms of league performance because of our lack of depth. That's the product of the budget (actually spending only what we have - unlike much of the division) in a professional sport. There's nothing much that we can do about that other than to look for progress off the park - a fan zone; possible club bar; commercial progress; ease of access on matchday - and possibly target an extended cup run that would feed back resources to the first team squad.

People throwing toys out the pram about it (mostly within the club right now; probably at MCT later) is not going to achieve anything productive.

Edited July 26, 2023 by vikingTON

[The Ghost of B A R P]

2 hours ago, virginton said:

It will only keep us in the mix (assuming in and around the promotion play-offs) if we get fortunate with injuries. On reflection, I think we were a bit lucky to not suffer many long-term absences last season - and the one notable absence (Quitongo) could have been expected and was not in a key area of the park. His attributes were missed of course, but it's not the same as the issues caused by Baird's injury right now. 

If we end up with a larger and more serious injury list this season then we will probably regress in terms of league performance because of our lack of depth. That's the product of the budget (actually spending only what we have - unlike much of the division) in a professional sport. There's nothing much that we can do about that other than to look for progress off the park - a fan zone; possible club bar; commercial progress; ease of access on matchday - and possibly target an extended cup run that would feed back resources to the first team squad.

People throwing toys out the pram about it (mostly within the club right now; probably at MCT later) is not going to achieve anything productive.

Yes, that’s one of the many reasons we need to be careful with a limited budget: we need to keep something back that allows us to respond to an injury pile-up… the big ‘if’ in any club’s preparations, every single year.

A credible squad of 18, with the ability to add to it in an emergency, is the realistic way for us to go (as compared to compiling a 22-man squad and paying guys to sit in the stand, just in case we get injuries… which I know you’re not advocating, btw).

In the immediate term, both because of the Baird situation and because we were already short there, the defence is the priority. Sort that and we have enough elsewhere, at least for the moment.

Totally agree, btw, that the knicker-wetting about the squad and demands for ‘statements’ (fuxake) are ridiculous; we’re in better shape on and off the pitch than we were 12 months ago. Imrie and the board now face the tricky task of pushing on, or at the very least consolidating… and managing expectations in the process.

That last bit might explain the noises Imrie’s currently making just as much as his determination to improve the squad.

[Vril]

23 hours ago, virginton said:

But you can only lobby effectively (as you claimed Imrie is doing) if you actually have leverage - if there's a realistic solution that the board can be pushed into enacting. Passive-aggressive media tactics from the manager and all the complaining in the world within the fanbase do not change the reality that if the money's not there in the budget right now, it's not there. The club can't magic it up from thin air and should not 'speculate' i.e. spend money it does not have. 

It's quite clear that the manager is unhappy with the budget but I don't see how he's any closer to getting that resolved to his own satisfaction. Funds will likely be released if we progress out of the LC group, but given Baird's injury he's probably going to wave goodbye to 'Frankie Deane' and move on regardless. 

I don’t think I used the word (or implied) “effectively”.   I don’t know any more than you whether or not he is wasting his time in complaining about the budget and trying to get more.   You don’t need me to tell you that budget & funds available are 2 separate things.  Eg we could have 100 million quid in the bank and give the manager a 200k budget.  Clearly if Imrie thinks there’s more money there, he is within his rights to ask for more.

If we have given him all of our spare cash as his budget, then asking for more is a waste of time.  If there’s still some more that’s been kept in the biscuit tin so to speak, then he might not be wasting his time.

Either way, I’m not suggesting we spend more money than we can afford, and I’ve also been clear that I’m fine with us exercising fiscal prudence - especially this season.  I’m not arguing over the rights & wrongs of what Imrie is trying to do - I’m just giving my take on why he has been doing it.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Vril

[TheGoon]

This isn’t a knock on MCT as I don’t believe they’d ever withhold funds (drastically), but it is a shame we’ve got as good a manager as we’re likely to get at this level and can’t really back him. Stuck in this purgatory until we can get that investment from somewhere.

 

[D'Jaffo]

6 hours ago, TheGoon said:

This isn’t a knock on MCT as I don’t believe they’d ever withhold funds (drastically), but it is a shame we’ve got as good a manager as we’re likely to get at this level and can’t really back him. Stuck in this purgatory until we can get that investment from somewhere.

 

I thought Dalrada had invested in the club or was that just a one off for last season? 

Imrie is doing what McCall used to do but it only works if there’s actual money there to be spent. MCT won’t have the spare funds sitting about that Lachlan did. Or maybe it’s a case of mind games to try and avoid players and agents asking for more money. 

[Vril]

1 hour ago, D'Jaffo said:

I thought Dalrada had invested in the club or was that just a one off for last season? 

Imrie is doing what McCall used to do but it only works if there’s actual money there to be spent. MCT won’t have the spare funds sitting about that Lachlan did. Or maybe it’s a case of mind games to try and avoid players and agents asking for more money. 

It’s an ongoing partnership but (as is to be expected) the specifics of the exactly how much we receive per season (and how much of this is allocated to squad budget) has not been published.

Our squad right now (while needing a couple of additions) is miles ahead of where it was this time last year before the money came in from Dalrada, so I think it’s fair to assume that a fair chunk of whatever they are contributing to this years budget is already being spent on guys who are signed, as well as the extensions we have given to Baird, Waters, Quitongo, Oconnor, Crawford & Gillespie since the money came in.

[R1874]

Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on Michael Garrity? Seen across both forums a lot of fans thinking he should be moving on but I've thought he looked really good off the bench during pre-season and the league cup and will likely not be on a high wage. Pretty sure the guys at the club rate him hence why he wasn't released when Mcgregor etc were.