When will indyref2 happen?

[mjw]

Aye fair enough, but I think you know what I meant, geographically speaking.

Aye.
Its p&b though ,you know how it goes.

[DublinMagyar]

The reason society is fucked is because of reasonable people like you.

I'm trying to be nice so as to not upset McSpreader................oh.......I see what you mean[emoji34]

[Alan Stubbs]

8 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

Also gives more time to consider a judgement on the SNP's record in Government, which can only be a good thing for the No vote.
Think many more will conclude, "do we really want this f*ckin lot leading us into the wilderness"!?

I agree that Government disaffection in Scotland will play a huge part here but couldn't disagree more on the direction of change.

We've got inflation to look forward to, a UK Government desperately reliant on a despised (and unraveling) Donald Trump, NHS privitisation being openly talked about etc etc. I don't want this to happen for the sake of Scottish Independence but what Brexit looks like for workers rights and the treatment of immigrants is probably likely to be quite unsavoury as well.

Those safe, reliable, midly evil Tories of the past that Scottish folk have trusted to run our affairs over ourselves are going to look quite appealing soon. The third term, socially liberal, economically centreish SNP are going to seem like an episode of Borgen.

Sorry but if you think the Scottish Government are likely to look less appealing relative to Westminster in the next few years, you're kidding yourself.

2 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

 

It isn't a question of material benefit Fide, neither is it simply an ideology to hold on to.

Its very real, it's who I am, my identity, my (and my family's) history, our distinct (in that it is traceable) bloodline our heritage and traditions.

We come from the four corners of the UK (well not Wales as far as I know) I am British in the same way I am sure you feel (and are) Scottish. I cannot deny my British citizenship, it's something I have a real sense of pride and duty in.

Imagine for a moment if you can, no longer being Scottish, it's incomprehensible eh?

Yes Scotland will always geographically be part of the British Isles, but to sever the bond and ties we have with our UK neighbours and relations is unthinkable to me, although admittedly it is now looking increasingly likely post Brexit.

Cue the piss taking and ridicule, that's fine but sorry, I can't explain it any better than that.

 

Don't actually have any problem with this tbh. Too many people (particularly Unionists let's be honest) refuse to acknowledge national identity as any kind of factor in people's stance, when it clearly is.

Again where I disagree, is with all the times you've claimed the 2014 result as an affirmation of British identity in Scotland. For some like yourself it was, which is fine. The numbers just aren't there to win a vote on Britishness alone. Not even close.

[Alan Stubbs]

9 hours ago, Randy Giles said:

I'm still a bit unsure of having it next year, but at the same time, the UK government seem to be trying to do as much to help the indy cause as possible, so you never know.

They're spinning a bunch of plates at the moment and a Scotland whose Weetos vote was holding up were an easy one to swab off. I know the Express/Mail/Scotsman types can't get behind May enough when there's a 'STURGEON SLAPPED DOWN!!!" story but overall, I don't think the UK Gov would have been that keen to seem this hostile.

A few more close polls make things a lot trickier to handle.

[1320Lichtie]

 It isn't a question of material benefit Fide, neither is it simply an ideology to hold on to.
Its very real, it's who I am, my identity, my (and my family's) history, our distinct (in that it is traceable) bloodline our heritage and traditions.
We come from the four corners of the UK (well not Wales as far as I know) I am British in the same way I am sure you feel (and are) Scottish. I cannot deny my British citizenship, it's something I have a real sense of pride and duty in.
Imagine for a moment if you can, no longer being Scottish, it's incomprehensible eh?
Yes Scotland will always geographically be part of the British Isles, but to sever the bond and ties we have with our UK neighbours and relations is unthinkable to me, although admittedly it is now looking increasingly likely post Brexit.
Cue the piss taking and ridicule, that's fine but sorry, I can't explain it any better than that.
 

Hahahahahahahahahahaha oh ya fucker.

Fuck your family and fuck your heritage.

Nobody sitting in Westminster gives a fuck about it either.

[RedRob72]

Rob, you come across to me as a reasonable kinda guy even if we don't agree politically (or football wise) but if you think retaining your British identity is more important than than a fairer society where decisions about Scotland are made in Scotland, by the people of Scotland, well, you can go fuck yourself. I'd still buy you a whisky

Aye, that'll do for me.

[RedRob72]

Hahahahahahahahahahaha oh ya fucker.

Fuck your family and fuck your heritage.

Nobody sitting in Westminster gives a fuck about it either.

Wouldn't expect anything less Lichtie1916 ya wee f*ck![emoji6]

[1320Lichtie]

Wouldn't expect anything less Lichtie1916 ya wee f*ck![emoji6]

Rob.

That's the past, it all sounds very respectable on the face of it but like I said nobody sitting in Westminster cares.

Scotland and indeed Northern Ireland don't get treated as equal partners in this union and they rely on people like yourselves for things to continue that way.

[Kejan]

A bit off topic, but is the Indyref2 announcement at the SNP conference just rumours or any SNPers in the know?

If you asked a year, even six months ago I'd have probably said to wait a bit before holding it, but the actual cluster funk that is Westminster, the Conservatives and the shambles of that Brexit bill in the parliament and it's amendments,  plus the voice of Labour's 2015 election campaign now seemingly backing independence https://twitter.com/TimesMagazine/status/830099036883525634

Then fuck it let's go for it. Surely better jumping in to the deep blue sea rather than staying aboard the SS Brexit.

 

[RedRob72]

Rob.

That's the past, it all sounds very respectable on the face of it but like I said nobody sitting in Westminster cares.

Scotland and indeed Northern Ireland don't get treated as equal partners in this union and they rely on people like yourselves for things to continue that way.

Fair enough Lichtie, it's a future that belongs to you not me. That's what my adolescent kids tell me anyway!

[kirkyblue2]

43 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Rob.

That's the past, it all sounds very respectable on the face of it but like I said nobody sitting in Westminster cares.

 

 

Doesn't matter where they sit, most politicians don't really care about us.

[AUFC90]

4 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

 

It isn't a question of material benefit Fide, neither is it simply an ideology to hold on to.

Its very real, it's who I am, my identity, my (and my family's) history, our distinct (in that it is traceable) bloodline our heritage and traditions.

We come from the four corners of the UK (well not Wales as far as I know) I am British in the same way I am sure you feel (and are) Scottish. I cannot deny my British citizenship, it's something I have a real sense of pride and duty in.

Imagine for a moment if you can, no longer being Scottish, it's incomprehensible eh?

Yes Scotland will always geographically be part of the British Isles, but to sever the bond and ties we have with our UK neighbours and relations is unthinkable to me, although admittedly it is now looking increasingly likely post Brexit.

Cue the piss taking and ridicule, that's fine but sorry, I can't explain it any better than that.

 

None of that has fuck all to do with Scottish independence and everything to do with British nationalism. We are both British and you'll still be British after a yes vote. This a political decision to determine who's best looking after Scotlands interests. Westminster, ran by private school boys for the benefit of a few, 500 miles away or a fully sovereign Scottish parliament ran by relatively normal people just up the road. All your post confirms is that even if there was indisputable evidence that Scotland would be better off you would still vote no because of plain and simple nationalism. 

I have relatives from the rest of the UK, so what ? They'll be my relatives regardless.

[git-intae-thum]

4 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

 

It isn't a question of material benefit Fide, neither is it simply an ideology to hold on to.

Its very real, it's who I am, my identity, my (and my family's) history, our distinct (in that it is traceable) bloodline our heritage and traditions.

We come from the four corners of the UK (well not Wales as far as I know) I am British in the same way I am sure you feel (and are) Scottish. I cannot deny my British citizenship, it's something I have a real sense of pride and duty in.

Imagine for a moment if you can, no longer being Scottish, it's incomprehensible eh?

Yes Scotland will always geographically be part of the British Isles, but to sever the bond and ties we have with our UK neighbours and relations is unthinkable to me, although admittedly it is now looking increasingly likely post Brexit.

Cue the piss taking and ridicule, that's fine but sorry, I can't explain it any better than that.

 

No piss take or riducule from me either mate. What you say comes across as heartfelt. Even if I disagree with you, I respect your opinion.

What I would say is that the way you describe your nationality and feeling is probably where I was at maybe 25 to 30 years ago. I too, come from what could be described as a traditionally "unionist" background.

I found that once all the history and emotion had been taken away and  things were looked at rationally, it was pretty clear that our part of the union (and other parts also) have had a raw deal. They have been asset stripped of people and materials for f@ck knows how long. All for the benefit of one small corner of this union.

That made me angry. I looked into it. After generations of blue and red tory governments, it became  pretty clear that nothing could ever be done to reddress the situation from within. My views gradually (gradually mind) changed. Independence for Scotland is the future. Just my personal experience so don't bite ma heid aff.

 

 

[RedRob72]

No piss take or riducule from me either mate. What you say comes across as heartfelt. Even if I disagree with you, I respect your opinion. What I would say is that the way you describe your nationality and feeling is probably where I was at maybe 25 to 30 years ago. I too, come from what could be described as a traditionally "unionist" background.

I found that once all the history and emotion had been taken away and  things were looked at rationally, it was pretty clear that our part of the union (and other parts also) have had a raw deal. They have been asset stripped of people and materials for f@ck knows how long. All for the benefit of one small corner of this union.

That made me angry. I looked into it. After generations of blue and red tory governments, it became  pretty clear that nothing could ever be done to reddress the situation from within. My views gradually (gradually mind) changed. Independence for Scotland is the future. Just my personal experience so don't bite ma heid aff.[emoji14]

 

 

 

Not at all, it's an appreciated reply, I've friends who have followed the same route. We agree to differ and get on with it. Their arguments are sound enough and the choice is up to them. There's an equal number of our SC that just don't feel that way.

 

We all Follow Rangers btw, I know that the pigeon hole is important to some on here , in that we're all the same, it isn't true.

 

[Am Featha Taigh Nan Clach]

Imagine Rangers died (again) on the day of a Yes vote. Two justified wanks before breakfast

[The_Kincardine]

1 hour ago, Am Featha *****h Nan Clach said:

Imagine Rangers died (again) on the day of a Yes vote. Two justified wanks before breakfast

This is why we regard you Rangers-obsessed ScotNats as thick as fuck.

[1320Lichtie]

This is why we regard you Rangers-obsessed ScotNats as thick as fuck.

Why's that then?

[The_Kincardine]

4 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Why's that then?

 

The idiocy of regarding Sevco fans and Unionism as conjoined twins.  A fair few well-respected Bears on here voted 'Yes'.  This truth is underappreciated by the 'make it up as you go along' diddies.

[git-intae-thum]

18 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

This is why we regard you Rangers-obsessed ScotNats as thick as fuck.

Ye there are some rockets aboot. But you need to chill a bit and enjoy the journey.

When all is said and done, in the near future, Scotland will be an independent state, almost certainly within the EU.

Nationalistic roasters will be thanked for their passion and then quietly sidelined.

[1320Lichtie]

The idiocy of regarding Sevco fans and Unionism as conjoined twins.  A fair few well-respected Bears on here voted 'Yes'.  This truth is underappreciated by the 'make it up as you go along' diddies.

Of course some of them did but they're in the minority. Rangers flaunt their Quintessential British club status they have at every opportunity available.

And don't even try and deny that. Horrible.