doulikefish Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 24 minutes ago, williemillersmoustache said: That's some top trolling with the photo, wee hint of a saltire in the background, g&t on the case, fabulous. And as always the beeb (who didnt admit to lying today over gers) have reported it as being delivered to maggie may (get on with yer day job instead of talking about brexit) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Rider Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said: That's some top trolling with the photo, wee hint of a saltire in the background, g&t on the case, fabulous. Mmmmm, Queen Nicola!❤️ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 UK media picking up on JIm Roger's 'slap down' of 'little England' as unable to cope with loss of Scottish oil. Wonder why UK media don't recognise the UK debt and importance of assets such as oil? Quote Speaking to the BBC, Rogers said: “If Scotland leaves they are going to take their oil with them and the pound could go down a great deal. It would certainly go down under one US dollar.” “You've got a lot of debt, you've got a serious balance of trade problem which shows no signs of being corrected. I don't see anything to make sterling go up.“ http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/pound-value-brexit-dollar-euro-jim-rogers-prediction-currency-exchange-latest-a7362086.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colkitto Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is it time for the SNP to engage in obstructionism? (i.e., the use of technical procedures to disrupt the House of Commons' ability to function) to force the government to comply with the Scottish government request and agree with Section 30 order, which has so far been been ignored. Obstruction involves giving lengthy speeches which are largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. This could be quite effective given all the legislation that would be required for Laws coming back to Westminster from the EU. Could cause utter chaos if done properly with a Tory government running out of time to have all this legislation in place before Brexit deadline 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 1 minute ago, Colkitto said: Is it time for the SNP to engage in obstructionism? (i.e., the use of technical procedures to disrupt the House of Commons' ability to function) to force the government to comply with the Scottish government request and agree with Section 30 order, which has so far been been ignored. Obstruction involves giving lengthy speeches which are largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. This could be quite effective given all the legislation that would be required for Laws coming back to Westminster from the EU. Could cause utter chaos if done properly with a Tory government running out of time to have all this legislation in place before Brexit deadline Filibustering? The Tories do that all the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GTG_03 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Is it time for the SNP to engage in obstructionism? (i.e., the use of technical procedures to disrupt the House of Commons' ability to function) to force the government to comply with the Scottish government request and agree with Section 30 order, which has so far been been ignored. Obstruction involves giving lengthy speeches which are largely irrelevant to the topic at hand. This could be quite effective given all the legislation that would be required for Laws coming back to Westminster from the EU. Could cause utter chaos if done properly with a Tory government running out of time to have all this legislation in place before Brexit deadline No, although this would appeal to the 30 odd percent of hard-core yessers it would be perceived really badly by exactly the sort of people that require won over. The SNP and the wider yes movement need to be reasonable, organised and confident. Keep the Tommy sheridans and the caravan campers out of the scene as much as possible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 On 28/03/2017 at 23:09, Black and White Tragic said: I just want to know why the Daily Mail (and most of the Mainstream media South of the border, let's face it that's all of them) offers a diametrically opposed juxtaposition namely... 1. They claim Scots are scroungers and that the money that comes from the treasury is a subsidy for Scotland. They provide numbers that show Scotland gets more per head of central government spending (which I accept, but there is good reason for this. Scotland has a larger landmass per head of population so there are logistically higher costs associated with having people spread out over a larger area) but they bang on about Barnett calculating how much of "English taxpayers money" is being sent north of the border. So they create a climate in which the English generally believe Scotland should be ditched at the earliest opportunity. 2. On the other hand, they defend the Union like it is sacrosanct. They deride Scots as whingers and promote obstruction of moves for Scottish independence. You have to ask why the Union is so precious. Is Scotland a nice place to go on holiday or retire to without a passport? A remote place with a port suitable to keep nukes at arms length? ...or is it just that they are lying about the burden that we are? Maybe it's just the age old problem, "the trouble with Scotland, is that it's full of Scots."? Its because we are so inter-twined and connected with society, business, history, economy,families, culture and geography and that the sum of both countries together is greater than the individual values of each country. That's why the UK punches well above it's weight . The Barnett formula rightly helps with the logistical issues associated with such a small population in such a large land mass. That theory about Nukes is just silly, but it's funny how many believe that rubbish. There are nuclear facilities all over the UK. Many Scots, unfortunately, are whingers. They are a burden to the rest of us and their negativity is rightly reported and derided in the English press. The Union is the most successful, peaceful, longest lasting union in the history of the world and one we can be proud of. Scotland could benefit so much more from this Union if it's representaives in Holyrood actually did the job they were elected to do. i..e. do the best job for the people of Scotland. Unfortunately their obsession with Independence stops them doing that. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, GTG_03 said: No, although this would appeal to the 30 odd percent of hard-core yessers it would be perceived really badly by exactly the sort of people that require won over. The SNP and the wider yes movement need to be reasonable, organised and confident. Keep the Tommy sheridans and the caravan campers out of the scene as much as possible. Sorry, but I'll need to repeat myself here. Google "Tories filibustering". If they don't want to debate a bill they propose an amendment, then spend the allcoated time for debating the bill, speaking about the amendment. They do it all the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black and White Tragic Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Its because we are so inter-twined and connected with society, business, history, economy,families, culture and geography and that the sum of both countries together is greater than the individual values of each country. That's why the UK punches well above it's weight . The Barnett formula rightly helps with the logistical issues associated with such a small population in such a large land mass. That theory about Nukes is just silly, but it's funny how many believe that rubbish. There are nuclear facilities all over the UK. Many Scots, unfortunately, are whingers. They are a burden to the rest of us and their negativity is rightly reported and derided in the English press. The Union is the most successful, peaceful, longest lasting union in the history of the world and one we can be proud of. Scotland could benefit so much more from this Union if it's representaives in Holyrood actually did the job they were elected to do. i..e. do the best job for the people of Scotland. Unfortunately their obsession with Independence stops them doing that. I think I got a full house at union bingo there..."U.K. Punches well above its weight" tick"So intertwined" tick"Sum greater than the parts" tick"Many Scots a burden" tick - more so than in England?"Peaceful" tick - because we've been putting up with this shit for so long"We can be proud of" tick (are you including colonialism, slavery in that mix?"Stick to the day job" tick"Obsession" tick We are not talking about nuclear facilities, just the WMDs permanently based at Faslane. There has already been security incidents. I was 50/50 before 2014 - but I did some research and decided that independence was the way forward. If you want to convince me, don't use the same quotes churned out endlessly from Labour, libs and tories. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shades75 Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, Black and White Tragic said: I think I got a full house at union bingo there... "U.K. Punches well above its weight" tick "So intertwined" tick "Sum greater than the parts" tick "Many Scots a burden" tick - more so than in England? "Peaceful" tick - because we've been putting up with this shit for so long "We can be proud of" tick (are you including colonialism, slavery in that mix? "Stick to the day job" tick "Obsession" tick We are not talking about nuclear facilities, just the WMDs permanently based at Faslane. There has already been security incidents. I was 50/50 before 2014 - but I did some research and decided that independence was the way forward. If you want to convince me, don't use the same quotes churned out endlessly from Labour, libs and tories. In parallel, I might've voted no in 2014 had I not decided to become politically engaged about a year before the vote after many years of apathy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 9 minutes ago, Black and White Tragic said: I think I got a full house at union bingo there... "U.K. Punches well above its weight" tick "So intertwined" tick "Sum greater than the parts" tick "Many Scots a burden" tick - more so than in England? "Peaceful" tick - because we've been putting up with this shit for so long "We can be proud of" tick (are you including colonialism, slavery in that mix? "Stick to the day job" tick "Obsession" tick We are not talking about nuclear facilities, just the WMDs permanently based at Faslane. There has already been security incidents. I was 50/50 before 2014 - but I did some research and decided that independence was the way forward. If you want to convince me, don't use the same quotes churned out endlessly from Labour, libs and tories. I can guess where you did your research. The quotes you criticise are beliefs. I realise Nationalists struggle with alternate points of view. Btw, I don't want to convince you of anything, really I dont, but I'm happy to express my opinions and debunk stupidity. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Putting aside whether you're a Yes or No voter (if you can that is!) this is about basic democracy. We are now in a situation in Scotland where we now have to campaign for the right to democracy WITHIN the UK. The government in the mother of parliaments in London has just ignored the will of a democratically elected parliament in Scotland. That's an absolute disgrace and anyone who believes in democracy as a basic right of the people should feel outraged This in spades. Even before my conversion is to the Yes cause I would like to still have argued that the that it was absolutely right for there to be an IndyRef2 if it were voted for by MSPs. Maggie May is like Cnut trying to stop the tide - only difference between them is Cnut knew that he couldn't stop it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Well aye, obviously independence isn't going to suddenly solve all of Scotland's problems by itself. It is merely the first step in allowing us, as a nation, to address them. It's not even about solving Scotland's problems - it's about democracy - or rather the lack of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black and White Tragic Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I can guess where you did your research. The quotes you criticise are beliefs. I realise Nationalists struggle with alternate points of view. Btw, I don't want to convince you of anything, really I dont, but I'm happy to express my opinions and debunk stupidity. There you are attempting to belittle my research. I don't struggle with alternate points of view, if they can be backed up with facts and are not just fluffy strap lines.I am here to be convinced, totally open to reasoned debate. It angers me that Theresa May is denying a mandate from a manifesto commitment, duly voted and delivered by the Scottish Government. It's okay for the Torys to allow England to take back control, but not Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 If you borrow at historically low interest rates to spend on infrastructure (or any other project) that has a clear multiplier effect, then it can be far more efficient to do so than "balancing the books". The fiscal benefits of extra growth (such as increased tax receipts to the Treasury and a little inflation) trump the cost of borrowing extra money on very light terms. Depends what you mean by balanced budget though - if it is year on year then you will be are absolutely free right - if it is over he economic cycle then it might be a different matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSpreader Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said: This in spades. Even before my conversion is to the Yes cause I would like to still have argued that the that it was absolutely right for there to be an IndyRef2 if it were voted for by MSPs. Maggie May is like Cnut trying to stop the tide - only difference between them is Cnut knew that he couldn't stop it. I don't think anyone has said Scotland cant have a 2nd Indyref. Just not now. Sensible ! Btw Cnut thought he could stop the tide as he thought he was ordained by God.....He was wrong. However, that was the incoming tide. Indy is an Ebb tide. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 'Just not now' That's not for London to decide 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 I don't think anyone has said Scotland cant have a 2nd Indyref. Just not now. Sensible ! Btw Cnut thought he could stop the tide as he thought he was ordained by God.....He was wrong. However, that was the incoming tide. Indy is an Ebb tide. Being a pedant but Cnut was proving he wasn't a God. 'Let all men know how empty and worthless is the power of kings, for there is none worthy of the name, but He whom heaven, earth, and sea obey by eternal laws.' 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 They didn't say the referendum wasn't going to happen, just not now. Why on Earth have a referendum on independence, based sorely on the idea of "Brexit", when they have no idea what the negotiations will ultimately bring. Anyone with any brain whatsoever would wait and see what any new trade deals etc would bring and decide then. Anyone thinking otherwise are, to go by what has been said before about NO voters and brexiteers, dolts, idiots, brainwashed imbeciles and so forth. We all know what fucking way Brexit is heading - it's a hard Brexit no two ways about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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