When will indyref2 happen?

[Bishop Briggs]

25 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Anyway, seeing as you believe every statement from self serving politicians and do not believe in real politik, i'll assume you believe this as well.

The German Chancellor said that giving Britain full access to free trade across Europe's border but allowing it to restrict the movement of people would lead to a free-for-all.

"If we don't say that full access to the internal market is linked to full acceptance of the four fundamental freedoms, a process will spread in Europe in which everyone does what they want," she said.

I don't believe every statement from self-serving politicians. Actions are much more important. The EU, via CETA, has given Canada access to the Single Market (98% of tariffs don't apply) without freedom of movement. 

 

[AUFC90]

1 minute ago, Bishop Briggs said:

I don't believe every statement from self-serving politicians. Actions are much more important. The EU, via CETA, has given Canada access to the Single Market (98% of tariffs don't apply) without freedom of movement. 

 

Did Canada leave the EU before gaining a trade deal ?

[Bishop Briggs]

46 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Mariano Rajoy never confirmed anything, indeed his aid even went to the trouble of explaining that the UK constitution is different and if the UK agrees to an independent Scotland then who are they to argue.

ETA, it wasn't his aid, it was the spanish foreign minister.   “If the two parts of the United Kingdom are in agreement that [Scottish independence] is in accord with their constitutional arrangement, written or unwritten, Spain would have nothing to say, we would simply maintain that it does not affect us.”

The constitutional arrangements of the United Kingdom are one thing, those of Spain another, and it is their own business if they decide to separate from one another.”  

It's not different, Brexit deals require consent of all members just as Scotland gaining entry to the EU does. Now you are saying that only the words of a few members matter when you've been adamant that even the smallest, shittiest EU member could block an independent Scotland. Fact is Spanish, or any politician for that matter can say whatever they like before a referendum.Means precisely zero.

That's a different issue. Of course, Spain is not bothered about Scottish independence post Brexit. It's concerned about whether a region of a Member State (and the EU regards Scotland and Catalonia as regions not nations) is able to secure special arrangements.

Sturgeon wants the UK to "sponsor" Single Market membership for Scotland even if the UK chooses to leave the Single Market. Spain would oppose any such "special arrangement".

[Pearbuyerbell]

4 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's a different issue. Of course, Spain is not bothered about Scottish independence post Brexit. It's concerned about whether a region of a Member State (and the EU regards Scotland and Catalonia as regions not nations) is able to secure special arrangements.

Sturgeon wants the UK to "sponsor" Single Market membership for Scotland even if the UK chooses to leave the Single Market. Spain would oppose any such "special arrangement".

...and we'll have a vote during the interim to determine the status of Scotland.   It's almost like Nicola et al have thought this through......

[Bishop Briggs]

4 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

Did Canada leave the EU before gaining a trade deal ?

So you honestly believe that the EU would give a better deal to Canada than the UK with which it has a large trade deficit? 

Then there is the issue of the financial transfers by EU nationals, especially Poland, from the UK to their home countries.

Britain has a very strong bargaining position. But the SNP supporters appear to want the EU to screw Britain and therefore Scotland.

[AUFC90]

6 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's a different issue. Of course, Spain is not bothered about Scottish independence post Brexit. It's concerned about whether a region of a Member State (and the EU regards Scotland and Catalonia as regions not nations) is able to secure special arrangements.

Sturgeon wants the UK to "sponsor" Single Market membership for Scotland even if the UK chooses to leave the Single Market. Spain would oppose any such "special arrangement".

Good, makes and independence referendum all the more likely.

[AUFC90]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

So you honestly believe that the EU would give a better deal to Canada than the UK with which it has a large trade deficit? 

Then there is the issue of the financial transfers by EU nationals, especially Poland, from the UK to their home countries.

Britain has a very strong bargaining position. But the SNP supporters appear to want the EU to screw Britain and therefore Scotland.

I honestly believe that making it easy for the UK will be far more damaging to the EU than anything else.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 minutes ago, Pearbuyerbell said:

...and we'll have a vote during the interim to determine the status of Scotland.   It's almost like Nicola et al have thought this through......

Plus a clear and credible policy on our future currency, dealing with the fiscal deficit and the relationship with the rest of Britain. 

[AUFC90]

3 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Plus a clear and credible policy on our future currency, dealing with the fiscal deficit and the relationship with the rest of Britain. 

I'm happy with a currency union, independent currency backed by our share of BOE reserves or even the Euro.

[Pearbuyerbell]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Plus a clear and credible policy on our future currency, dealing with the fiscal deficit and the relationship with the rest of Britain. 

1) Will be our pound.  
2) Scotland's really rich so no dice.   We'll decide at elections our fiscal travel.  
3) As before.   Not everyone is fixated with labeling foreigners.   

[Bishop Briggs]

1 minute ago, AUFC90 said:

I honestly believe that making it easy for the UK will be far more damaging to the EU than anything else.

That's fair point even though I disagree with it. I advocate real independence, with our own currency, from the EU and the UK. It would realistically take at least 5 to 10 years, including a period of fiscal austerity, to achieve. It's a price that's worth paying!

[AUFC90]

2 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

That's fair point even though I disagree with it. I advocate real independence, with our own currency, from the EU and the UK. It would realistically take at least 5 to 10 years, including a period of fiscal austerity, to achieve. It's a price that's worth paying!

I just want independence from a useless Westminster. Fact is we'll be using some sort of currency and I don't really give a shit what it is.

[Bishop Briggs]

2 minutes ago, Pearbuyerbell said:

1) Will be our pound.  
2) Scotland's really rich so no dice.   We'll decide at elections our fiscal travel.  
3) As before.   Not everyone is fixated with labeling foreigners.   

Sterling is Britain's currency. We need our own, free floating, currency and central bank. The last thing we need is for for the Bank of England or European Central Bank to dictate our monetary policy and interest rates .

[Bishop Briggs]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

I just want independence from a useless Westminster. Fact is we'll be using some sort of currency and I don't really give a shit what it is.

You should give a shit because it have a massive impact on economic growth and prosperity.

[AUFC90]

Just now, Bishop Briggs said:

Sterling is Britain's currency. We need our own, free floating, currency and central bank. The last thing we need is for for the Bank of England or European Central Bank to dictate our monetary policy and interest rates .

Why ? Almost every rich European country has their monetary policy governed by the ECB. The only countries that moan about it are economic basket cases in the East and of course Spain who canny get their employment rates to an acceptable level for life or money. I never hear the likes of Belgium, Holland and the like moaning about the euro.

[AUFC90]

2 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

You should give a shit because it have a massive impact on economic growth and prosperity.

If you say so, can you provide evidence that it will have a massive impact ? Ireland tagged along with the pound until they decided to ditch it and are now much richer and more prosperous than the UK.

[welshbairn]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

If you say so, can you provide evidence that it will have a massive impact ? Ireland tagged along with the pound until they decided to ditch it and are now much richer and more prosperous than the UK.

Their economy was fucked for 50 years till they finally floated away from the pound and later joined the Euro.

[Pearbuyerbell]

2 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said:

Sterling is Britain's currency. We need our own, free floating, currency and central bank. The last thing we need is for for the Bank of England or European Central Bank to dictate our monetary policy and interest rates .

I agree with but it will be a Scottish pound next time out.   You'll recall I voted for brexit, and as a Yes voter I am worried the EU won't be desirable by the time Indyref2 comes around.   France, Italy and Germany elections will decide that.   What I disliked from your comment is the fiscal "14.5 billion black hole".    The elephant in the room is the barnett formula which will be gone in 5 years / whenever Indyref2 loses.   If either happens sooner.  

[AUFC90]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Their economy was fucked for 50 years till they finally floated away from the pound and later joined the Euro.

So we should join the euro ? Fact is we'll do whatevers best. I don't really see the currency as being too important. Was the irish economy really that fucked compared to the rest ? The UK economy was in a pretty bad state for a long while as well.

[welshbairn]

Just now, AUFC90 said:

So we should join the euro ? Fact is we'll do whatevers best. I don't really see the currency as being too important. Was the irish economy really that fucked compared to the rest ? The UK economy was in a pretty bad state for a long while as well.

I'd be happy with the Euro, it would smooth the way to EU membership too, and a quick route to financial stability. I remember seeing children with rags and bare feet one winter in Dublin in the mid Seventies. Everyone was emigrating if they could.