When will indyref2 happen?

[Antlion]

18 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Should be entertaining when the wrestling lad finally gets nice and specific with all of these broad claims.

Black Lives Matter being a hate group is a good start.

Looks like this alias isn’t even starting out semi-reasonable - going baws oot racist from the off, to get the licks in before it follows the previous accounts.

[BFTD]

6 minutes ago, Antlion said:

Looks like this alias isn’t even starting out semi-reasonable - going baws oot racist from the off, to get the licks in before it follows the previous accounts.

Now now. He's only a racist if he kills someone while screaming ethnic slurs, just like you're only a fascist once you've annexed the Sudetenland.

[Wee-Bey]

We've not had a facts and logic/debate me you coward guy for a while now tbf.

[welshbairn]

I get that "race realism" involves the claim that black people are thick, but what the f**k is "complimentarianism" ?

[Scott Steiner]

4 minutes ago, BFTD said:

Now now. He's only a racist if he kills someone while screaming ethnic slurs, just like you're only a fascist once you've annexed the Sudetenland.

Nicely deflected.

[Scott Steiner]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I get that "race realism" involves the claim that black people are thick, but what the f**k is "complimentarianism" ?

Do you?  Well that's certainly not my take on race realism.

[welshbairn]

3 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Do you?  Well that's certainly not my take on race realism.

Why do all you wee nazi trolls pretend to be Rangers fans? This was your second post btw.

On 28/11/2021 at 16:28, Scott Steiner said:

Great win for the teddy bears!

[Scott Steiner]

9 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Why do all you wee nazi trolls pretend to be Rangers fans? This was your second post btw.

Are you drinking?

[SweeperDee]

20 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Are you drinking?

Are you a fucking idiot?

[Scott Steiner]

5 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

Are you a fucking idiot?

The list is expanding rapidly.

Cheerio

[sophia]

7 minutes ago, SweeperDee said:

Are you a fucking idiot?

In the morning welshbairn shall be sober 

[Theyellowbox]

It's easy for everyone to minimise the immigrants when they are just a statistic in the number of people crossing each day and not the person and their story behind the crossings. Yes, I don't think on the face of it people want young economic migrant (mainly men) to good the country, but what is lost is that often you will find these guys are having to flee as they are at risk of being killed. Would we not all do the same?

If the UK actually put in place a fair and proper imigration policy that is based on who is needed and where, then it would be to the betterment of anyone. For example, Scotland needs hospitality workers, so document the immigrants properly and entice them here.

Where there is clear humanitarian needs, act first and argue the merrits after. If you want to put off folk coming here, don't let or allow crises in their own countries where we can.

Once we as a country can have a proper frank discussion about imigration without prejudice of where the people are coming from, their intentions when here and what they contribute culturally and economically, we will be able to have an imigration policy fit for what is needed.

I'd say that imigration will be a key argument in the independence referendum as what may be bad for parts of England, may be good for Scotland.

[Scott Steiner]

11 hours ago, sophia said:

In the morning welshbairn shall be sober 

Let's hope so!

His posts may improve.

[Scott Steiner]

11 hours ago, Theyellowbox said:

It's easy for everyone to minimise the immigrants when they are just a statistic in the number of people crossing each day and not the person and their story behind the crossings. Yes, I don't think on the face of it people want young economic migrant (mainly men) to good the country, but what is lost is that often you will find these guys are having to flee as they are at risk of being killed. Would we not all do the same?

If the UK actually put in place a fair and proper imigration policy that is based on who is needed and where, then it would be to the betterment of anyone. For example, Scotland needs hospitality workers, so document the immigrants properly and entice them here.

Where there is clear humanitarian needs, act first and argue the merrits after. If you want to put off folk coming here, don't let or allow crises in their own countries where we can.

Once we as a country can have a proper frank discussion about imigration without prejudice of where the people are coming from, their intentions when here and what they contribute culturally and economically, we will be able to have an imigration policy fit for what is needed.

I'd say that imigration will be a key argument in the independence referendum as what may be bad for parts of England, may be good for Scotland.

Good points YellowBox.

It's hard to get to the truth of the reality of the situation, factors, motives etc as you have a polarised media/political class who just give a one sided version, depending on what agenda they have.  It's very rare you get someone giving a truthful, balanced analysis.

When it comes down to it, they are fleeing a safe country to come to another safe country and people are dying on the journey.  Are they being told lies about the safety of the journey by people smugglers?  What are they told they're travelling for?  Why are there so many men without women and children?  Would they still be making the journey if we guarded the border properly?  What are their conditions in France like?

These are all questions that need answered IMO, and it's very difficult to scrape through the agendas to get to the truth.  Whilst accepting that these are people of equal worth to ourselves, we still need to be realistic.  I mean, if we just allowed them all to stay and fill vacant jobs, then would more not probably start make the dangerous journey and die?  And people smugglers make a killing off it?

It's never just black and white (excuse the pun)

Edited December 7, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[sophia]

15 minutes ago, Scott Steiner said:

Let's hope so!

His posts may improve.

You are aware of the purpose of my post?

[Scott Steiner]

Just now, sophia said:

You are aware of the purpose of my post?

You are aware of my double bluff?

Honestly, all you lot with your constant sarcasm, insults and hostility.. just try acting reasonably and I'll do the same back.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[Theyellowbox]

3 hours ago, Scott Steiner said:

When it comes down to it, they are fleeing a safe country to come to another safe country and people are dying on the journey.  Are they being told lies about the safety of the journey by people smugglers?  What are they told they're travelling for?  Why are there so many men without women and children?  Would they still be making the journey if we guarded the border properly?  What are their conditions in France like?

The thing is though, it's not entirely correct to say they are fleeing a safe country to get to another safe country. Whether they are in France, Spain or Mongolia will matter not to these people. The goal of some will be to get to Germany or Italy or France and the goal of others will be to come to the UK. I think the perception given to us is that they are en mass passing through these countries to come here which is simply not the case. Many stay where they stop along the way.

The question is always asked of 'why the UK'? The answer is that we have a language that if you speak any other than your native it will be English, so clearly an initial draw. Add to that the exportation of British goods and culture. May be simple, but if you can speak some English and watch man utd on TV in Syria you will be tempted to want to come to the UK over say Sweden. Don't forget too that the UK is an island and psychologically, if you are fleeing violence and murder that will play into it. Finally, we are already a melting pot, so you will likely find similar people here, even family.

Yes, there will be single men travelling and some/most will be genuine refugees, but if we have a proper and fair policy, any that are not will be weeded out.

I'm a descendent of a single male refugee coming to the UK in the last century fleeing in fear of life, so maybe I'm biased, but he and his fellow refugees that he befriended here, all threw themselves into the life here and massively contributed culturally and economically to Scotland. Why shouldn't the likes of the current refugees not be given the same respect and opportunities. Maybe we call all learn something from people of different views and backgrounds.

[Scott Steiner]

29 minutes ago, Theyellowbox said:

The thing is though, it's not entirely correct to say they are fleeing a safe country to get to another safe country. Whether they are in France, Spain or Mongolia will matter not to these people. The goal of some will be to get to Germany or Italy or France and the goal of others will be to come to the UK. I think the perception given to us is that they are en mass passing through these countries to come here which is simply not the case. Many stay where they stop along the way.

The question is always asked of 'why the UK'? The answer is that we have a language that if you speak any other than your native it will be English, so clearly an initial draw. Add to that the exportation of British goods and culture. May be simple, but if you can speak some English and watch man utd on TV in Syria you will be tempted to want to come to the UK over say Sweden. Don't forget too that the UK is an island and psychologically, if you are fleeing violence and murder that will play into it. Finally, we are already a melting pot, so you will likely find similar people here, even family.

Yes, there will be single men travelling and some/most will be genuine refugees, but if we have a proper and fair policy, any that are not will be weeded out.

I'm a descendent of a single male refugee coming to the UK in the last century fleeing in fear of life, so maybe I'm biased, but he and his fellow refugees that he befriended here, all threw themselves into the life here and massively contributed culturally and economically to Scotland. Why shouldn't the likes of the current refugees not be given the same respect and opportunities. Maybe we call all learn something from people of different views and backgrounds.

I see where you're coming from regarding their preferred destination being e.g. UK, so passing through somewhere else enroute will make sense to them.  The other side of the argument would simply be to reiterate that they are already safe and are putting their own lives at risk by making that final dangerous journey.  A humane argument could be made that any incentive to making this final journey actually puts lives at risk.

Good point about the language incentive.  I've never been one to just say they are here for the benefits.. that's always seemed like a lazy way of looking at it for me.

I'm glad your ancestor managed to carve a life for himself here, but there are examples of both good and bad refugees over the years.  What we are talking at the moment are undocumented, illegal immigrants/refugees, mostly young men, illegally entering the country and we don't know who they are.  That seems completely wrong to me.

Anyway, thanks for the reasonable reply.  You're attitude is far better than many on here.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Scott Steiner

[magic sign]

I see where you're coming from regarding their preferred destination being e.g. UK, so passing through somewhere else enroute will make sense to them.  The other side of the argument would simply be to reiterate that they are already safe and are putting their own lives at risk by making that final dangerous journey.  A humane argument could be made that any incentive to making this final journey actually puts lives at risk.
Good point about the language incentive.  I've never been one to just say they are here for the benefits.. that's always seemed like a lazy way of looking at it for me.
I'm glad your ancestor managed to carve a life for himself here, but there are examples of both good and bad refugees over the years.  What we are talking at the moment are undocumented, illegal immigrants/refugees, mostly young men, illegally entering the country and we don't know who they are.  That seems completely wrong to me.
Anyway, thanks for the reasonable reply.  You're attitude is far better than many on here.

It has been pointed out numerous times on this forum and elsewhere, that it is not illegal to enter a Country by unusual means if you are doing so to make a claim for asylum. There is also no obligation for someone to claim asylum in the first safe Country they reach. If we were really interested in making asylum available for deserving cases and rejecting asylum for undeserving cases, we would make it easier for people to claim asylum and have their cases assessed as efficiently as possible. Instead we say if can get here you can claim asylum but we're going to make it impossible for you to get here by conventional means.

[Kenneth840]

On 04/12/2021 at 19:20, Baxter Parp said:

In the minority of what?

 

On 04/12/2021 at 19:24, The_Kincardine said:

Aye, those damned furriners spoiling wur ethno-nationalism.

To answer both these questions, Scots born will be in the minority.  It has been declining for years and immigration to Scotland has been increasing for 300 years.