When will indyref2 happen?

[Colkitto]

11 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I would agree that it should be Holyrood's choice and not Westminster's.

I do however take the view that Scotland's people made their choice in 2014 and there is some justification in allowing those who voted No to have their decision respected for a reasonable period of time. This might be a good thing anyway because I am not persuaded that we are yet ready as a nation to do whatever needs to be done to make it succeed. I am seriously concerned that way too many Yes voters have a socialist utopia in mind with all major problems fixed overnight. When that doesn't happen we'll see tiresome protests and whining followed by a decades long battle to get our arses in gear. As much as I want independence, my head tells me we, as a country, lack the people with the correct attitude to make it easy. I hope I am wrong but Scotland has become a specialist in mediocrity with many other countries leaving us behind.

Too wee too poor too stupid? 

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 I hope I am wrong but Scotland has become a specialist in mediocrity with many other countries leaving us behind.

Who? Murca?

[AyrExile]

32 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

I would agree that it should be Holyrood's choice and not Westminster's.

I do however take the view that Scotland's people made their choice in 2014 and there is some justification in allowing those who voted No to have their decision respected for a reasonable period of time. This might be a good thing anyway because I am not persuaded that we are yet ready as a nation to do whatever needs to be done to make it succeed. I am seriously concerned that way too many Yes voters have a socialist utopia in mind with all major problems fixed overnight. When that doesn't happen we'll see tiresome protests and whining followed by a decades long battle to get our arses in gear. As much as I want independence, my head tells me we, as a country, lack the people with the correct attitude to make it easy. I hope I am wrong but Scotland has become a specialist in mediocrity with many other countries leaving us behind.

I wonder how many of the 62% actually voted no in both referendums and wish to see democracy respected instead of Sturgeon using it as an means to create more division. 

[McSpreader]

2 minutes ago, Colkitto said:

Too wee too poor too stupid? 

 More Peurile commentary. Something the SCotNats are getting good at.

I agree with Oaksoft that too many Nats seem to think indy will lead to a fabled Socialist Utopia.

Well it won't. 

There should be a respectful amount of time to the next referendum. At least 10-15 years.

They still don't get it that none of the issues that stopped them winning last time have been addressed and relying on a growing hatred of Westminster/Toryism is one hell of a long shot.

Tbh I think the Conservatives are gaining ground in Scotland despite the repeated denials on here, and will continue to do so. An iScotland, if we ever get one, will need a Conservative administration to prosper.

[mizfit]

Not panicking at all.

[kirkyblue2]

16 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

  An iScotland, if we ever get one, will need a Conservative administration to prosper.

There's a hole in the bucket.

[1320Lichtie]

Not panicking at all.

If only Scottish people were allowed to vote in the last one would yes not have won?

[welshbairn]

12 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

If only Scottish people were allowed to vote in the last one would yes not have won?

 

Depends on whether you include English expats as Scottish.

[sergie's no1 fan]

25 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

If only Scottish people were allowed to vote in the last one would yes not have won?

 

I believe so, pretty sure I read that on here.

Yoons shitting themselves because they know every single foreigner will vote YES this time.

Why not just make the vote for over 50's only too??

 

[sergie's no1 fan]

In fact I'd use the English vote for English matters rule for the next referendum.

No English allowed to vote on a Scottish and EU citizen matter.

 

[DublinMagyar]

Yeah I think this is a fair and reasonable summary.
For me this needs to be shelved until the mid 20's.

You go girl!

[AUFC90]

It's fascinating watching Oaksofts slow but sure evolution over the last few years from ardent, optimist yes voter, to right wing, negative Tory and soon to be unionist.....Fascinating.

Edited February 13, 2017 by AUFC90

[Alan Stubbs]

1 hour ago, McSpreader said:

 More Peurile commentary. Something the SCotNats are getting good at.

I agree with Oaksoft that too many Nats seem to think indy will lead to a fabled Socialist Utopia.

Well it won't. 

There should be a respectful amount of time to the next referendum. At least 10-15 years.

They still don't get it that none of the issues that stopped them winning last time have been addressed and relying on a growing hatred of Westminster/Toryism is one hell of a long shot.

Tbh I think the Conservatives are gaining ground in Scotland despite the repeated denials on here, and will continue to do so. An iScotland, if we ever get one, will need a Conservative administration to prosper.

I'm not likely to vote for them but I'm sure an iScotland will have a reasonably well supported conservative option. Which is a good thing in a proper democracy.

The SNP dining off the fact that they aren't a diddy branch office won't be a thing post-Independence either. Much healthier state of affairs, I'm looking forward to it.

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

We are neither too wee, too poor or too stupid so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Our problem is our cultural attitude. It's negative, downbeat, nasty, delights in laughing at others failures, likes to put people in their place and comes complete with our own custom built chip on shoulder feature guaranteed to cause problems if we ever get the chance to stand on our own two feet.

When the great trading nations of the earth are looking for people with a "fuck it, let's do it" attitude they are no longer coming to our shores in the numbers they once used to. Until we fix this we cannot succeed.

This^^^^........

The negativity is evident on this forum with the constant, overriding obsession with one-

upmanship in  almost every comment. Our political representatives engage with the world with a permanent scowl or sneer on their faces.

Having lived in England for years, I can tell you the difference in attitude is  so much more positive, more aspirational and progressive. Basically, happier.

And that's for all people living down South, not just English folk, but everyone.

I'd forgotten just how bitter and negative some Scots could be until I moved back. It's one of the reasons I'll never vote for independence . There would have to be a seismic shift in the Scottish mindset first.

1 hour ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

In fact I'd use the English vote for English matters rule for the next referendum.

No English allowed to vote on a Scottish and EU citizen matter.

 

So the English living here are no longer 'Scottish Citizens' then........Nationalist exclusivity will always rear it's ugly head......It's what Nationalists have always done in every political arena  everywhere across the world. It's the  ugly nature of the beast!

[AUFC90]

Morons arguing that a chip on the shoulder mindset is best addressed by NOT being an independent country. Morons do what morons do I suppose.

[AUFC90]

2 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

This^^^^........

The negativity is evident on this forum with the constant, overriding obsession with one-

upmanship in  almost every comment. Our political representatives engage with the world with a permanent scowl or sneer on their faces.

Having lived in England for years, I can tell you the difference in attitude is  so much more positive, more aspirational and progressive. Basically, happier.

And that's for all people living down South, not just English folk, but everyone.

I'd forgotten just how bitter and negative some Scots could be until I moved back. It's one of the reasons I'll never vote for independence . There would have to be a seismic shift in the Scottish mindset first.

So the English living here are no longer 'Scottish Citizens' then........Nationalist exclusivity will always rear it's ugly head......It's what Nationalists have always done in every political arena  everywhere across the world. It's the  ugly nature of the beast!

There are no Scottish citizens. The recent Brexit referendum was by far and away more nationalistic and racist. People from the EU who pay taxes not allowed to vote because reasons. I'm glad the Scottish Government took a better and more inclusive path with the indyref.

[Alan Stubbs]

5 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Nationalist exclusivity will always rear it's ugly head

 

On 11/02/2017 at 21:16, McSpreader said:

 

Who gives a flying fuck what Polish folk think?...they can gtf 

 

[sergie's no1 fan]

1 minute ago, McSpreader said:

This^^^^........

The negativity is evident on this forum with the constant, overriding obsession with one-

upmanship in  almost every comment. Our political representatives engage with the world with a permanent scowl or sneer on their faces.

Having lived in England for years, I can tell you the difference in attitude is  so much more positive, more aspirational and progressive. Basically, happier.

And that's for all people living down South, not just English folk, but everyone.

I'd forgotten just how bitter and negative some Scots could be until I moved back. It's one of the reasons I'll never vote for independence . There would have to be a seismic shift in the Scottish mindset first.

So the English living here are no longer 'Scottish Citizens' then........Nationalist exclusivity will always rear it's ugly head......It's what Nationalists have always done in every political arena  everywhere across the world. It's the  ugly nature of the beast!

 it was a wee joke. I actually believe in English votes for English matters in Westminster but it should be the same for all the nations involved. 

Being serious everyone that stays here should be entitled to vote, if Yoons don't want EU's to have a vote on this matter it shows just how scared they are.

Don't make me post pictures and videos from George Square on 19th September 2014. Nasty Nationalism works both ways.

[NotThePars]

Not sure the "nasty nationalism"' of the Yes vote is comparable to the Unionist side. It was the Leave that put up billboards scaring people about migrants queuing to get in to Britain and David Cameron writing articles about how sad it would be if his ancestors suddenly became "foreigners".

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

We are neither too wee, too poor or too stupid so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Our problem is our cultural attitude. It's negative, downbeat, nasty, delights in laughing at others failures, likes to put people in their place and comes complete with our own custom built chip on shoulder feature guaranteed to cause problems if we ever get the chance to stand on our own two feet.

When the great trading nations of the earth are looking for people with a "fuck it, let's do it" attitude they are no longer coming to our shores in the numbers they once used to. Until we fix this we cannot succeed.

It's much more difficult for students from outside the EU to work here after graduating, and the UK is about to stop young, dynamic Europeans to come here at all, and are threatening to kick out the ones that are already here, contributing to our pension fund. It's got nothing to do with Scottish cultural attitudes.