When will indyref2 happen?

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, harry94 said:

By a miniscule amount. The projected deficit is still ridiculously high as it stands and oil isn't going to fix that.

Norway expect oil revenues to be£16 billion this year.  They don't have as much as Scotland.

And the deficit is a lie anyway, what you mean is the deficit the people desperate to prevent independence concoct.

[TONTROOPER]

3 hours ago, harry94 said:

 The projected deficit is still ridiculously high as it stands and oil isn't going to fix that.

Which deficit would that be? Hope you're not resurrecting that debunked old chestnut GERS?

[harry94]

Which deficit would that be? Hope you're not resurrecting that debunked old chestnut GERS?

It's not 'debunked'. It isn't a comprehensive description of an independent Scotland but it is based on metrics which exist. Hague was being a bit of a tit and out of his depth in discussing the matter at hand during the previous argument we had a few months ago but that doesn't make it completely worthless.

Unless it's off by a really substantial estimate, it is an economic reality that there's a challenging deficit to balance. The whole crap where people bring oil into the independence argument as a great strength is just complete nonsense and ruins their credibility. We're talking about maybe an increase of 10% on oil revenues here, it's a tiny amount for the tin hat brigade to start spouting BBC bias nonsense about.

The argument needs to be won with a vision of investment in people and establishment of intellectual capital long-term. We've got considerable assets that can be utilised and developed with independence (or more powers) but these arguments are not being made by the mainstream movement.

[TONTROOPER]

Football on the telly is about to start.As far as GERS is concerned.....countless articles  on the subject over on Wings/Prof. Murphy:Tax....etc.

[Peppino Impastato]

3 hours ago, harry94 said:

It's not 'debunked'. It isn't a comprehensive description of an independent Scotland but it is based on metrics which exist. Hague was being a bit of a tit and out of his depth in discussing the matter at hand during the previous argument we had a few months ago but that doesn't make it completely worthless.

Unless it's off by a really substantial estimate, it is an economic reality that there's a challenging deficit to balance. The whole crap where people bring oil into the independence argument as a great strength is just complete nonsense and ruins their credibility. We're talking about maybe an increase of 10% on oil revenues here, it's a tiny amount for the tin hat brigade to start spouting BBC bias nonsense about.

The argument needs to be won with a vision of investment in people and establishment of intellectual capital long-term. We've got considerable assets that can be utilised and developed with independence (or more powers) but these arguments are not being made by the mainstream movement.

In 2016 Scotland exported£6 billion of goods and services to ruk.  I'll let you guess if gers for that year took account of this.  And when I say exported we didn't get paid for them.  Things like electricity, of which Scotland produces 25% more than it uses.

London, according to the UK government, exported fifty tonnes of salmon.  London doesn't produce any salmon.

25 of the 26 figures in gets are provided by London.  Many of which are estimates.

If you believe that you'll be very interested in this bridge I have for sale.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Peppino Impastato

[bob the tank]

In 2016 Scotland exported£6 billion of goods and services to ruk.  I'll let you guess if gers for that year took account of this.  And when I say exported we didn't get paid for them.  Things like electricity, of which Scotland produces 25% more than it uses.
London, according to the UK government, exported fifty tonnes of salmon.  London doesn't produce any salmon.
25 of the 26 figures in gets are provided by London.  Many of which are estimates.
If you believe that you'll be very interested in this bridge I have for sale.

Scotland is charged to input electricity into the "national" grid, English generators are given a subsidy. How can our united kingdom have an internal market if we are all better together?

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, bob the tank said:

 

Scotland is charged to input electricity into the "national" grid, English generators are given a subsidy. How can our united kingdom have an internal market if we are all better together?

 

This is true and was the reason for the closure of longannet.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said:

In 2016 Scotland exported£6 billion of goods and services to ruk.  I'll let you guess if gers for that year took account of this.  And when I say exported we didn't get paid for them.  Things like electricity, of which Scotland produces 25% more than it uses.

London, according to the UK government, exported fifty tonnes of salmon.  London doesn't produce any salmon.

25 of the 26 figures in gets are provided by London.  Many of which are estimates.

If you believe that you'll be very interested in this bridge I have for sale.

You put out decent arguments when you avoid personal attacks. I'd suggest you carry on like this. And provide links occasionally.

I studied at the @PB 4.2 Posting Academy BTW, alongside my volunteer work with C.A.S.T.

 

 

[Peppino Impastato]

5 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You put out decent arguments when you avoid personal attacks. I'd suggest you carry on like this. And provide links occasionally.

I studied at the @PB 4.2 Posting Academy BTW, alongside my volunteer work with C.A.S.T.

 

 

Thanks very much.  I was a little disappointed you didn't ask about the theory as to why our government clearly, and it clearly does, wants to escalate the conflict in Syria and force regime change.  It's a cracker.

[bob the tank]

This is true and was the reason for the closure of longannet.

I know I posted that a couple of weeks ago

[strichener]

On 3/4/2018 at 18:52, Peppino Impastato said:

This is true and was the reason for the closure of longannet.

 

On 3/4/2018 at 23:15, bob the tank said:

 

I know I posted that a couple of weeks ago

 

The carbon tax was far more influential in the demise of Longannet than Grid imposed charges.  A plant that had already outlived it's design life with a higher cost base (even when ignoring transmission charges) than the competition is not going to attract investment in the UK context.  Additionally the Government decision to allow foreign interconnectors to bid for the annual peak demand contracts further weakened the case for Longannet.

Of course the purpose of the carbon tax is to reduce polution to meet the UK government's climate targets.  Given that Scotland has far more ambitious targets, it is inconceivable that Longannet as a coal burning station would have been more likely to succeed in an Independent Scotland.

[bob the tank]

The carbon tax was far more influential in the demise of Longannet than Grid imposed charges.  A plant that had already outlived it's design life with a higher cost base (even when ignoring transmission charges) than the competition is not going to attract investment in the UK context.  Additionally the Government decision to allow foreign interconnectors to bid for the annual peak demand contracts further weakened the case for Longannet.
Of course the purpose of the carbon tax is to reduce polution to meet the UK government's climate targets.  Given that Scotland has far more ambitious targets, it is inconceivable that Longannet as a coal burning station would have been more likely to succeed in an Independent Scotland.

Yes I know these factors played a part in the closure, but it didn't help that Westminster behaved like a thrawn child and basically spat the dummy and kept saying no, we'll decide what's best for you lot in Scotland

[Cyclizine]

Scotland is charged to input electricity into the "national" grid, English generators are given a subsidy. How can our united kingdom have an internal market if we are all better together?

Plus the in the north we pay a surcharge on our electricity bills to cover 'transmission costs', despite producing excess wind and hydro power which feeds to the south...

[Peppino Impastato]

18 hours ago, Cyclizine said:

Plus the in the north we pay a surcharge on our electricity bills to cover 'transmission costs', despite producing excess wind and hydro power which feeds to the south...

Meaning we literally pay to give England electricity.  And not a small amount, a quarter of our entire use.  Is it any wonder they're desperate to convince us we're better together.

[sergie's no1 fan]

It looks as if the brexit wheels are slowly started to come off the UK juggernaut. This whole power theft saga should be the tipping point.

If we dont start to see more support in these Indy polls soon, we never will.

Can't believe the easy ride Ruth and Mundell get in the media. The tactic when a political hot potato is passed to Ruth is hide for a week then tweet or do an interview about baking or shortbread. To think there were folk out there who believed she could be Scotland's next FM.

[Loondave1]

It looks as if the brexit wheels are slowly started to come off the UK juggernaut. This whole power theft saga should be the tipping point.

If we dont start to see more support in these Indy polls soon, we never will.

Can't believe the easy ride Ruth and Mundell get in the media. The tactic when a political hot potato is passed to Ruth is hide for a week then tweet or do an interview about baking or shortbread. To think there were folk out there who believed she could be Scotland's next FM.

Thinking a disastrous Brexit is intrinsically connected to a YES vote is flawed. It's just wishful thinking that one leads to the other with zilch evidence to back it up.

[AyrExile]

1 hour ago, Loondave1 said:

Thinking a disastrous Brexit is intrinsically connected to a YES vote is flawed. It's just wishful thinking that one leads to the other with zilch evidence to back it up.

Spoilsport. Can you not just let people dream instead of bringing reality to the echochamber. 

[Loondave1]

Spoilsport. Can you not just let people dream instead of bringing reality to the echochamber. 

Dream on then. I think if the pothole situation isn't sorted out soon YES is inevitable. Tick tock.

[NotThePars]

Brexit on its own probably won’t shift the polls but marrying that oncoming disaster with a progressive vision should be enough to achieve it. Give people a reason to vote for something as well as highlighting the disaster that awaits voting against is probably key.

[welshbairn]

2 hours ago, Loondave1 said:

Thinking a disastrous Brexit is intrinsically connected to a YES vote is flawed. It's just wishful thinking that one leads to the other with zilch evidence to back it up.

Given that we were promised that the only way to be in the EU was to vote No has turned out to be the complete opposite, I'd say it's very connected. If, as some EU spokesmen have argued, we would be fast tracked back in after Brexit as an independent nation, as we already match the criteria, then it's just up to how many Scots would prefer to stay in the EU or follow the UK off the cliff.