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Corbyn on Scotland


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http://labourhame.com/a-mountain-to-climb-together/

I would like to make a few points.

1) He has had a pop at the SNP but he makes exactly the same kind of pop at his own party all the time. In other words, his words are not party political.

2) He's said Labour needs to win back voters from the SNP. We can expect that, just as we can expect the SNP to want to win votes off Labour.

3) The impression I get from him so far about the SNP is that he is willing to give them credit where it is due and is willing to work with them, as he has already on issues such as trident.

4) As for the pooling of resources comment, I take it to mean him saying Scotland needs a fairer go if it's to remain in the Union, rather than it should.

5) I don't know what he thinks of the independence issue, but he is opposed to Bitter Together and he has said in the article itself that the party needs to be more tolerant of members who disagree with the leadership. I'll hold aloft an Arsenal scarf outside Stamford Bridge while wearing a Celtic shirt if it turns out he thinks being in favour of Scottish independence isn't included.

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Would love to believe he could lead a left leaning labour revival. But i don't. He's probably right on a number of things but the overwhelming view is that labour weren't tory enough, that's why they lost.

I just don't see him leading labour into the next election. Maybe he'll be leader for a bit, sort out some of the mess the party is in but no way will he be allowed to vie for PM.

Without a younger, more charismatic, energetic, social justice campaign leader coming to the fore in 12-24 months time, labour and the union? It's fucked, it really is just a matter of time.

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I think I agree with you on everything there. He stood to start a debate and it appears to be working - Burnham seems to have come back to his senses and Cooper seems to have been pulled left as well. It's vital his voters use their second preference to vote for Burnham or Cooper to keep Kendall out, she makes me embarrassed to be a cockney who lives in the midlands. To paraphrase someone's sig on here, New Labour logic is that people don't trust Labour on the economy because of how the economy performed under New Labour so to be trusted on the economy Labour need to return to New Labour.

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What an absolute shambles the Labour leadership race is.

The idea that Labour could choose Burnham and Watson as leader and deputy is just mind-boggling. They are completely fucked.

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I love this paragraph :

John Smith was a decent man. I didn’t always agree with him, nor him with me, but he was always prepared to listen to different arguments and accept difference within the party. If elected leader, I would aspire to continue John’s tradition to genuinely listen to everyone’s views within the party. That would start with establishing a constitutional convention to resolve those key questions of where power should lie and of lowering the voting age as Scotland did in the referendum.

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What an absolute shambles the Labour leadership race is.

The idea that Labour could choose Burnham and Watson as leader and deputy is just mind-boggling. They are completely fucked.

jj.png

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Corbyn can say what he likes and I'm sure Burnham and Cooper may be pulled left a little to shore up left-leaning Labour members vote in the leadership contest. That'll end when Corbyn is comprehensively routed in the contest and the new leader has to win back votes from people who voted Tory in May.

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The election clearly showed that people don't want Tory-lite. If they want Tory policies they will, and did, vote for the Tories.

Labour need to ditch this centrist bollocks and prove to people how attractive left wing politics can be. And the only person who can do that for them is Corbyn. Unfortunately, or fortunately depending how you look at it, Labour are such rudderless p***ks, I have more chance of becoming the next Labour leader than Corbyn.

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Labour need to ditch this centrist bollocks and prove to people how attractive left wing politics can be. And the only person who can do that for them is Corbyn.

I'd agree with the first point but not the second. There is not a single candidate there who is offering a credible leftist alternative. What Corbyn offers is the usual traditional leftist oppositionalist martyrdom.

The other thing that Labour need - and something that I believe that the SNP on the whole have shown - is to be competent. As Dennis Skinner said of John Smith "I'd rather have a right-winger who is competent than a left-winger who isn't" - a barb aimed at outgoing leader Neil Kinnock.

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If the Labour Party vote for anyone other than Liz Kendall they can probably kiss goodbye to winning the most seats in England for another 10 years at least.

I fear you are right. Can't see Liz winning unfortunately though.

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What's the general consensus on Andy Burnham? Seems a fairly safe pair of hands?

Used to like him but over the last few years he's fallen into the 'Tories are evil, let's shout at them and disagree with them' philosophy which never works for Labour. If Labour can't define themselves as anything other than 'not the Tories' they will continue to suffer.

He will be getting my second preference though. Not because I think he's great but because Corbyn is a loony and Cooper is too associated with Balls.

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