The James McClean Sponsored Poppy Thread

[jagfox]

For me the poppy has become more synonymous with the increased heroin production in Afghanistan after our intervention there rather than for the poor feckers put through the meat grinder at those horrific battles of WWI.

In fact I've seen many pictures of WWI battlefields and there were f**k all poppies on show, just mud and shell holes.

FWIW I couldn't careless if someone wears a poppy or not. If someone really wants to show respect for old service people go to your local war memorial on the 11 November.

Also the hypocracy of the Earl Haig fund is never lost on me. We can send chaps to get killed, maimed or to lose their marbles but they get f**k all support on their return, it's fucking bonkers.

[dorlomin]

2 hours ago, renton said:

 However, i'd argue that from the famous pacifist oxford debates to appeasement itself there reflected an appetite to avoid another blood letting and that the notion of the futility of the first war was far from a projection of modern values but rather was a contemporary attitude

Futility? The British people went to war to defend the Belgian and French democracies. They did this, but at crippling human cost. Why do you think it was generally seen as futile before the hipper than thou 60s? So far as appeasement went, Hitler was originally pushing at an open door so far as the British were concerned. People were not all that bothered about preventing the Germans reunite with the Saar or even Austria. That does not mean they thought fighting for the Belgians was "futile". 

They certainly found it in them to do the same again for the Poles. 

Quote

As for the rest, yeah I seen one on facebook this morning,

Jesus wept. And that is how you diagnose a society spinning into militarism.

 

[The_Kincardine]

Just now, pandarilla said:

 

But it is political now - and has been for some time. It's a dog whistle issue for tabloid-reading numpties.
 

 

It's not political now and never has been and FIFA should never have got involved.

Armistice Day has always been benign, in my memory, since I was in The BB in the 1960s and the trolls trying to politicise it really need to GTF.

I may say this a few times more

[invergowrie arab]

53 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

It's not political now and never has been and FIFA should never have got involved.

Armistice Day has always been benign, in my memory, since I was in The BB in the 1960s and the trolls trying to politicise it really need to GTF.

I may say this a few times more

It's almost as if things change over time and that symbols have no innate meaning, only what individuals take from them.

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, invergowrie arab said:

It's almost as if things change over time and that symbols have no innate meaning, only what individuals take from them.

You're making the classic mistake of confusing 'timeless' with 'immutable' and wrapping it in to a token.  Not that I'm at all surprised.

The Poppy is simply a token.  Can we stop the thread here?

[vikingTON]

No: feel free to f**k off if you don't like its contents though.

[Tony Ferrino]

7 hours ago, Hammer Jag said:

Yup. Shame on the spineless SFA for following their masters in London and bowing to the poppy fascists.

Scotland should just let England do it on their own. Could be the worlds first 9 pointer.

[pandarilla]

Jesus wept. And that is how you diagnose a society spinning into militarism.

 

The 60s? There was plenty of anti war stuff in the interwar period but you seem to have ignored that a couple of times. Goodbye to all that, all quiet on the western front etc. Christ even some of the war poetry itself.

[pandarilla]

You're making the classic mistake of confusing 'timeless' with 'immutable' and wrapping it in to a token.  Not that I'm at all surprised.

The Poppy is simply a token.  Can we stop the thread here?

I highly recommend the 'is the poppy a political symbol?' article on the BBC website (I'm shit at linking to things on my phone, sorry).

It's got a vg link to a new york times journalist explaining the sensible rationale behind FIFA's decision and a professor from Brighton arguing that it has always been politicised (not the same but as far as FIFA is concerned there's no difference).

[The_Kincardine]

30 minutes ago, pandarilla said:

 

I highly recommend the 'is the poppy a political symbol?' article on the BBC website (I'm shit at linking to things on my phone, sorry).

 

No need, chap.  Every sane bloke kens it's not and if I want to read blokes arguing black is white I'll simply read what the grey and green dross post.

[eez-eh]

2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

No need, chap.  Every sane bloke kens it's not and if I want to read blokes arguing black is white I'll simply read what the grey and green dross post.

Care to answer my earlier reply to you in this thread?

I note you've previously gone off the heid at people who bring Rangers into this conversation, yet as this post shows you've no problem with bringing another team into the mix.

Edited November 4, 2016 by eez-eh

[The_Kincardine]

1 minute ago, eez-eh said:

Care to answer my earlier reply to you in this thread?

I note you've previously gone off the heid at people who bring Rangers into this conversation,

Not a Sevco issue, chap.

Link to the post you mentioned and I'll give it my sober consideration.

[eez-eh]

You called a poster an arsehole for saying they'd also be remembering innocent Syrians who have died as a result of war. I found that pretty strange.

It will be in your notifications somewhere, I can't be arsed trawling back through this thread.

[The_Kincardine]

22 minutes ago, eez-eh said:

You called a poster an arsehole for saying they'd also be remembering innocent Syrians who have died as a result of war. I found that pretty strange.

I called a poster an arsehole because he is.  The essence of remembrance is neither politicians nor conflicts but people and tragedy.  I feel fully justified on this yin. When you introduce campaigns into such discussion you immediately politicise it and that is of no value.

[renton]

11 hours ago, dorlomin said:

Futility? The British people went to war to defend the Belgian and French democracies. They did this, but at crippling human cost. Why do you think it was generally seen as futile before the hipper than thou 60s? So far as appeasement went, Hitler was originally pushing at an open door so far as the British were concerned. People were not all that bothered about preventing the Germans reunite with the Saar or even Austria. That does not mean they thought fighting for the Belgians was "futile". 

They certainly found it in them to do the same again for the Poles. 

Jesus wept. And that is how you diagnose a society spinning into militarism.

 

Yes, futility. For all the strategic necesssity of defending the low countries, the cost ended up out of all proportion to the gains. You can look at social attitudes of the time, the frustration stemming from a lack of change in society, the lack of what might be termed the 'fruits of victory', the rise in socialism at this time, the eventual toppling of Haig's reputation after his death in '27, the Oxford debates, a decade of prime ministers who couldn't find a mandate to re-arm in the face of facism, these are hardly the signs of a society that looked upon the '14-18 conflict with any kind of, if not fondness, then at least accomplishment. The secocnd conflict was of course saved in people's heads as a good war in terms of both the changes wrought afterwards by the '45 Labour government, as well as the abiding sense of justice at defeating a clearly 'evil' opponent.

You said you hadn't seen it, I said I did. I wasn't diagnosing a society spinning into anything. I would note that this whole thing never used to be an issue and has become more prominent as the years pass. What once was a quiet moment of respect is now something where public figures are pilloried if they aren't seen wearing poppies for two weeks prior, where you can now show your virtue signalling in ever more ostentatious poppies (including ones made from British shell fuses from the Somme!). On the right this has become a totemic issue and the right, and the populist alt right are now the centre of political gravity across the majority of the UK. I think this military fetishism is a symptom of something bigger and nastier - hate crime is up, dog whistle language across the media is no longer even subtle - I note the most popular right wing paper is today rounding on the judiciary over brexit and outright called an established pillar of liberal democracy 'an enemy of the people'. The UK is now, generally, more intolerant of and less generous to 'the other', nastier,  dangerously sentimental about those organs of state responsible for hard power projection and in thrall to a ferbile atmosphere of anxiety about it's place in the world.

Whatever 'it' is and I'm not goign to diagnose it, is not very nice.

[Savage Henry]

Maybe MI5 were on their holidays?

There were no cars, there were no paparazzi, and the supposed hotel in Paris doesn't exist. Diana died in Afghanistan in 1985, and her death was a false flag to allow Halliburton and BAE to invade France.

You are just another sheeple who believers everything the MSM tells them.

We're through the looking glass here, people.

NOBODY DIED IN PARIS!!!!!!1111

#ScholarsForPrincessDianaTruth

[Dee Man]

#jetfuelcantmeltthequeenofhearts

[trainspotter]

Walked past the merchandise van in Buchanan Street this morning, noticed their online link and decided to have a look.

Tacky beyond belief, and full of stuff perfect for the attention-seeking grief merchant in your life - a "Lest We Forget" hoodie, branded Poop Bag Holder (http://www.poppyscotlandstore.com/poppy-gifts/pets.html ) and poppy-stamped Titleist golf balls being particular lowlights.

[NorthernLights]

The Irish are being investigated now - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37872020

I blame Lee Wallace.

[Peppino Impastato]

Mi6 yeah.   That's right.   Btw if anyone thinks the royal family wouldn't have been absolutely hysterical about the heir to the throne being raised by a Muslim in Egypt they should really leave all discussion of anything that isn't the teletubbies to grown ups.