Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

Not convinced about Penney at all. Less his ability but attitude, however, the rumour has been about for a while and that was obviously some hint he dropped.

If someone offered us the train fare to Exeter for Bair I'd be taking it. An actual offer would give SK quite the dilemma mind.

Edited January 12 by Handsome_Devil

[MurrayWell]

Canny believe what I'm reading about our Player of the Month (and Player of our Hearts). 

Bair has been pretty good for us overall and very good in recent weeks. 

There's only one striker we should be making a point of punting this window. Without naming names it's Oli S... no that's too obvious, let's say O Shaw. 

[eliphas]

10 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I imagine that it will be Penney or Furlong. I imagine Penney (who's unattached) will be an 18-month deal and that would be one less thing to worry about next summer. I'd say from an immediate perspective, Furlong would be better, but he'd likely be a loan and we'd be looking for a left back again in the summer.

I actually think it would be harsh to drop Gent, he's come on to a game for me. However, given we've seen three different right backs and Blair Spittal at left wing back this season and we're dead set on a back three, it definitely makes sense to have two.ay

Aye spot on. 

I genuinely forgot about Gent somehow when I posted last night. Even though I was replying to someone who mentioned him 

If we can get Penney on a longer term deal we have to take it. We can't rely on loans all the time. I'd imagine Gent will be away. So unless Furlong is available and indicates he wants to commit to a longer term deal it has to be Penney if he wants it.

He's a good player. Yeah, he was a bit unsettled towards the second half of his loan, but who wouldn't have been under the Hammell management era? Also, just because he wanted back down the road last year (a rumour) doesn't mean he's not now happy to get stuck in and settle down. 

[welldaft]

So with Mahon gone that is 5 players that have now left the club this window. None in yet. Could be an interesting deadline day ! 

Ketts said he wanted to bolster the squad as we were very light going into games which I think even a blind man could see. Allowing for a couple of injured players returning should not really impact that. As we will most likely always have 2-3 1st team players injured or suspended at any point in time.

Assuming there are no other departures I would be looking for 3 to replace Spencer, Wilkinson and Souare. Alongside another 2-3 to bolster the squad as per Ketts wishes / comments and our needs. 

Better get our skates on !!!

 

 

[capt_oats]

14 hours ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I imagine that it will be Penney or Furlong. I imagine Penney (who's unattached) will be an 18-month deal and that would be one less thing to worry about next summer. I'd say from an immediate perspective, Furlong would be better, but he'd likely be a loan and we'd be looking for a left back again in the summer.

I actually think it would be harsh to drop Gent, he's come on to a game for me. However, given we've seen three different right backs and Blair Spittal at left wing back this season and we're dead set on a back three, it definitely makes sense to have two.

Of the two I think Penney is the easier to imagine since the fact that he's been without a club since last year means I don't think it's a given he'd go straight into the team ahead of Gent - it'd probably be more straightforward option to balance Gent getting game time as part of his loan and Penney being able to work his way up to some sort of acceptable match fitness.

Having two loans for the same position presumably with expectations of game time feels far more messy for a number of reasons.

Similarly, I don't quite have a handle on Kettlewell's preference to squad building but the fact we started the season with Souré/Gent and SOD/Spencer gave us one younger option along with an experienced alternative.

Either way I don't follow Matt Penney on IG so I don't know his posting habits enough to tell whether that Story was some sort of (not very) cryptic hint or just something he put up to remind folk he still kicks a baw.

We certainly need both a LWB and RWB though.

Edited January 12 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

The Thelonius Bair Hype Train:

[ropy]

We have the option of getting Penney into training as a trial to see if he still has it and would then have time to integrate him into the team with a view of him being a first pick next season.

Or maybe he just liked the strip?

[Swello]

Even though we picked up some points recently, we're in a relegation battle with 3 other clubs and Penney feels like a summer signing (ie - someone that needs a pre-season) and we pretty much need players who are effective now. I get that we have to live within our budget and we like a project but Penney might not be fully up to speed until march and that feels risky unless we are viewing him as a long term deal (ie more than 18 months). 

[thisGRAEME]

Cannot believe you cowards want to sell Bair, tbqhwy.

[capt_oats]

Ally Gorrin signs for Forest Green.

And in other former player news...

Edited January 12 by capt_oats

[capt_oats]

Not to bring the thread back to the video (which if McGarry's mailout is correct McMahon is paying for himself) but I noticed this write up presumably by the PA.

Quote

McMahon stressed the fan-owned club had cumulatively broken even since the Well Society assumed majority ownership in 2016 and explained they were looking for either more members, sponsorship or new investment to “de-risk the business”.

The 74-year-old was unaware of any criticism of the advertising agency-produced video and said: “We are not desperate for money. We are financially stable and we have enough money to see us through this season, next and maybe a bit of the next.

“So I don’t see it as begging for money and I am not embarrassed by it.

“I don’t think it’s a desperate cry for money because it isn’t. If it comes across that way, I can only say to fans, ‘that’s not what it was meant to be’.

“It was meant to be a tongue-in-cheek take on some of the trends that are happening in football just now and an attempt to encourage folk into the shop.

“We had more Well Society members sign up in the first couple of hours of the video than the last two or three months. And we have already had about 10 declarations of interest – can we find out more about the ability to invest?

“It’s part of our strategy to use our other contacts, mainly into the (United) States and other parts of the world, to say: ‘Here’s what we are. Here’s what defines what we are as a club, are you interested?'”

“Five, six years ago we didn’t have big injections of money from Americans or other people,” said McMahon as he denied the fan-ownership model was failing.

“James Anderson at Hearts is putting £5million a year in. You have Dave Cormack at Aberdeen. You have the Hibs money.

“There’s money coming in that is making it more difficult for us to compete on the pitch with these clubs. I think we react to it by trying to see if we can accrue money from other sources.

“We are not in financial difficulty, we are not trying to sell the club, we are trying to give it the best chance for the future. We should be examining the model continually to see if it’s still fit for purpose.

“I would tick the box of working jointly with someone whose values align with the Well Society. I guess the board would go out to the members with the proposition.”

Link

Like, that's all fine, and it's been pretty clear to anyone who has been paying attention and isn't being deliberately thick that the investment by Anderson and Cormack is what he's been talking about when he said we need investment.

However, see if you're having to clarify and explain all that stuff after the fact...it's probably fair to say that the video didn't land, regardless of the number of Twitter views the Tweet got.

It seems the piece was written by McCafferty so there's a bit of context as it was him who posted that pretty disingenuous Tweet about the finances and comparison with Killie the other week.

Edited January 12 by capt_oats

[YassinMoutaouakil]

[tree house tam]

2 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Neither can United though TBF.

[Sortmeout]

From the outside looking in I am really surprised by the reaction to the investment video. Almost every fan of every club wants more success for their club and the finances dictate success in most cases.

Scottish clubs, and football in general in Scotland, gets a lot of criticism for just staying the same. Whenever a club try to do something outside the box they seem to get hammered for it.

[thisGRAEME]

7 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I would not be surprised to see this revisited late in the window. Let's be realistic: No one else is stupid enough to pay the money that Dundee United pay him, that's why Tony Watt is a Dundee United player in the first place.

If they can't shift him, they'll make a deal, imo.

[JayMFC]

I used to post on here & Steelmen Online quite a while ago but kind of just fell out of posting on forums in general. Long-term lurker though, always enjoy reading this thread & the 'Well match threads to get some of the patter & debate. Sadly, I couldn't remember my previous login details & the Forgot Password thing didn't seem to want to send me any e-mails about it, so a new account it is...

Only really decided to make the leap back onto posting here in response to the recent discussion about the now notorious video. In particular, I think the clincher was eliphas's post below, which I was quite keen to reply to.

On 10/01/2024 at 21:45, eliphas said:

Agreed. In an ideal world that wee video and all the text from his personal account comes from WS directly.

But it's a start.

Derek obviously likes getting his opinions out there on various matters but fair fucks to him on this one. It does show some backing/alignment from Society to Club. Better than the others who as far as I can tell are silent other than Dickie. Although he's obviously spoken a few times on the clubs behalf.

I know quite a few on here but for those I don't, I'm Jay, been on the Well Society Board since early 2017, I've found the experience to be a hefty combination of that rewarding feeling of putting your free time towards something you think is genuinely worthwhile and absolute frustration. But, overall, I think the Society has moved in the right direction in that time and I'm actually really enthusiastic about the future with the new Board we have in place - there now seems to be an opportunity to make some real, positive change to how we go about a few things, and hopefully people begin to recognise that over the course of 2024.

Despite not posting on here for some time, I've always been very candid & open if anyone has any questions, be it at Fir Park, in the pub, on social media etc, and I'm happy to return to posting if that helps to break down this idea that there's a veil of silence that engulfs the Society Board. In relation to the point above, I'd just highlight that Derek's video was from an STV interview, which he'd been approached to do & the Society Board as a whole said "absolutely, please do", because he's very good at doing so.

There's a fair difference of opinion on the Society Board on a whole host of issues. Sometimes it's cordial disagreement, other times it can be genuinely passionate exchanges of ideas, probably just as anyone would expect. And often those disagreements extend beyond just our Board & include differences in opinion with the club's Executive Board etc. And it's for the best - I don't think any Society member would want a placid Board that just goes with the flow regardless & is essentially impotent. Despite that, we do try to keep those disagreements in-house as much as possible - I don't think it does any organisation any good to have individuals going rogue for no particular reason. That said, I'm always happy to give my own opinions on things when asked.

For example, in terms of the video, my reaction to seeing it was largely the same as everyone else's - I found it cringeworthy. As I think has been clarified elsewhere, it's something that was put together by an external agency & as a Board, we got to see the finished article before it was released. So the immediate response was not much of a surprise to me or some others on the Society Board. That said, I don't think any of us can argue with the fact that the agency's aim was to use a parody video of the Wrexham situation to go viral, and that's succeeded. I may have struggled to get through the full 90 seconds without cringing my face inside out but it's done the job it intended to, so I'm happy to hold my own hands up & say "fair enough" so far.

One thing is clear, and has been clear for sometime, communication from the Society is key. I think it's improved over the years from what it once was, and folk might be surprised to know that that's largely what people tell us in the main, but I still don't think it's good enough. However, that's something I think we're in a real position to try & change now, and I hope that members will start to see progress there going forward. Essentially, fan-ownership is, by its very nature, work in progress - it probably always will be - and we'll continue to do our best to make sure the Well Society Board is a genuine reflection of the Motherwell support when it comes to representation. I can only assure people that, in every discussion had (almost on a daily basis) that's very much happening.

I could probably spend the next hour just going through all the things I think it's worth addressing but, instead, I'll just try & be a bit more active on here to reduce the "silence" a little more. The only thing I will add is that, in the midst of all this talk about investment & fan-ownership, there will never come a time when any proposal that impacts on fan-ownership or the Well Society in any tangible way will be rolled out without every Well Society member having a vote on it. That's integral to the model.

[capt_oats]

46 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

I would not be surprised to see this revisited late in the window. Let's be realistic: No one else is stupid enough to pay the money that Dundee United pay him, that's why Tony Watt is a Dundee United player in the first place.

If they can't shift him, they'll make a deal, imo.

Aye, I saw that reply from Burns about us not being able to afford Watt's wages and my initial thought was "and St Mirren could?".

Full disclosure, I'd genuinely forgotten that he was at St Mirren but I'm fairly sure they weren't paying the full 10k p/w or whatever it is he's on.

Edited January 12 by capt_oats

[thisGRAEME]

Really, it's not hearing @JayMFC's opinions that's the real trick.

[rowsdower]

32 minutes ago, JayMFC said:

I used to post on here & Steelmen Online quite a while ago but kind of just fell out of posting on forums in general. Long-term lurker though, always enjoy reading this thread & the 'Well match threads to get some of the patter & debate. Sadly, I couldn't remember my previous login details & the Forgot Password thing didn't seem to want to send me any e-mails about it, so a new account it is...

Only really decided to make the leap back onto posting here in response to the recent discussion about the now notorious video. In particular, I think the clincher was eliphas's post below, which I was quite keen to reply to.

I know quite a few on here but for those I don't, I'm Jay, been on the Well Society Board since early 2017, I've found the experience to be a hefty combination of that rewarding feeling of putting your free time towards something you think is genuinely worthwhile and absolute frustration. But, overall, I think the Society has moved in the right direction in that time and I'm actually really enthusiastic about the future with the new Board we have in place - there now seems to be an opportunity to make some real, positive change to how we go about a few things, and hopefully people begin to recognise that over the course of 2024.

Despite not posting on here for some time, I've always been very candid & open if anyone has any questions, be it at Fir Park, in the pub, on social media etc, and I'm happy to return to posting if that helps to break down this idea that there's a veil of silence that engulfs the Society Board. In relation to the point above, I'd just highlight that Derek's video was from an STV interview, which he'd been approached to do & the Society Board as a whole said "absolutely, please do", because he's very good at doing so.

There's a fair difference of opinion on the Society Board on a whole host of issues. Sometimes it's cordial disagreement, other times it can be genuinely passionate exchanges of ideas, probably just as anyone would expect. And often those disagreements extend beyond just our Board & include differences in opinion with the club's Executive Board etc. And it's for the best - I don't think any Society member would want a placid Board that just goes with the flow regardless & is essentially impotent. Despite that, we do try to keep those disagreements in-house as much as possible - I don't think it does any organisation any good to have individuals going rogue for no particular reason. That said, I'm always happy to give my own opinions on things when asked.

For example, in terms of the video, my reaction to seeing it was largely the same as everyone else's - I found it cringeworthy. As I think has been clarified elsewhere, it's something that was put together by an external agency & as a Board, we got to see the finished article before it was released. So the immediate response was not much of a surprise to me or some others on the Society Board. That said, I don't think any of us can argue with the fact that the agency's aim was to use a parody video of the Wrexham situation to go viral, and that's succeeded. I may have struggled to get through the full 90 seconds without cringing my face inside out but it's done the job it intended to, so I'm happy to hold my own hands up & say "fair enough" so far.

One thing is clear, and has been clear for sometime, communication from the Society is key. I think it's improved over the years from what it once was, and folk might be surprised to know that that's largely what people tell us in the main, but I still don't think it's good enough. However, that's something I think we're in a real position to try & change now, and I hope that members will start to see progress there going forward. Essentially, fan-ownership is, by its very nature, work in progress - it probably always will be - and we'll continue to do our best to make sure the Well Society Board is a genuine reflection of the Motherwell support when it comes to representation. I can only assure people that, in every discussion had (almost on a daily basis) that's very much happening.

I could probably spend the next hour just going through all the things I think it's worth addressing but, instead, I'll just try & be a bit more active on here to reduce the "silence" a little more. The only thing I will add is that, in the midst of all this talk about investment & fan-ownership, there will never come a time when any proposal that impacts on fan-ownership or the Well Society in any tangible way will be rolled out without every Well Society member having a vote on it. That's integral to the model.

Welcome back! These are good insights. Having a society presence in places like this and SO (love it or hate it, there's a lot of us in there), is definitely a positive step towards removing the vaccum that we normally fill with bullshit.

I'm encouraged that there have been moves towards engaging with us exiles more. I know we're a small group, but theres an opportunity to harness some energy that we don't get to burn on live matchdays.

Most if us know who you and Derek are, and many of us go way back to when there was just firparkcorner, bit it would be useful to see more comment directly from the Society (even if it's you two actually writing it). The video is case in point, if the society had came out in full support, with the info that Derek had provided, maybe that helps smooth things?

Either way, I'm glad to see this progress. Now we just need a podcast again.

[JayMFC]

21 minutes ago, thisGRAEME said:

Really, it's not hearing @JayMFC's opinions that's the real trick.

Many have said this. 

9 minutes ago, rowsdower said:

Welcome back! These are good insights. Having a society presence in places like this and SO (love it or hate it, there's a lot of us in there), is definitely a positive step towards removing the vaccum that we normally fill with bullshit.

I'm encouraged that there have been moves towards engaging with us exiles more. I know we're a small group, but theres an opportunity to harness some energy that we don't get to burn on live matchdays.

Most if us know who you and Derek are, and many of us go way back to when there was just firparkcorner, bit it would be useful to see more comment directly from the Society (even if it's you two actually writing it). The video is case in point, if the society had came out in full support, with the info that Derek had provided, maybe that helps smooth things?

Either way, I'm glad to see this progress. Now we just need a podcast again.

Cheers mate. I absolutely do not disagree that the Well Society should be more vocal as its own entity. That's very much forming the basis of some discussions at the minute so I'm hopeful good things might come from that. However, as with everything, it's a democratic board & those of us who value that kind of communication need to make sure we're taking everyone else with us on that. There's always that balance, but I think everyone recognises the need for the Society to be communicating more, it's just about reaching agreement on what that looks like going forward.

As I suggested, the new look Board I think provides a lot of opportunity in that regard. I think there's now more of an appetite to really drive that kind of thing forward so, having been quite despondent in spells previously, I'm feeling quite optimistic about where we can take things going forward. 

Edited January 12 by JayMFC