Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, Busta Nut said:

Just taking it back to the defence and goalie chat.
I reckon if we have a competent confident goalie we'd be much better off defensively.

100%.

There's the famous Shilton quote about some of his best games being where he didn't make a save is very apt.

Even if you boil down the numbers on the number of set pieces you face, a goalie doesn't necessarily have to command his 18-yard-box but if he's not in control (at least punching, if not catching) everything in the 6-yard-box, you're fucked.

And at his worst this season Kelly hasn't even been dealing with corners hit straight to him on his line.

[Gianfranco]

Best case scenario for an experienced keeper - Craig Gordon imo. 
 

Edit - Although a quick google shows he signed a new deal at Hearts in February so disregard this post.

Edited May 6 by Gianfranco

[welldaft]

1 minute ago, Gianfranco said:

Best case scenario for an experienced keeper - Craig Gordon imo. 

Some of the comments have given me the fear that Craig Samson is on his way back

[Gianfranco]

1 minute ago, welldaft said:

Some of the comments have given me the fear that Craig Samson is on his way back

I still find it hilarious that we finished 2nd with Gunnar Neilson and Lee Hollis as our keepers. 
 

[YassinMoutaouakil]

We should mutual Spittal for a laugh 

[capt_oats]

Something that I'd never thought of, because why would I? You know how clubs receive compensation if players are included in squads for tournaments like the Euros and the World Cup? Does that also apply to Copa America?

Like, could we get a wedge if oor Thelonius and Harrison get call ups?

[Marinello]

As Brophy was close to signing for us in January ( but for Adams to kybosh the move) I wouldn't be surprised we go back in for him this summer.

[Gianfranco]

A massive no thanks to Brophy imo. He’d be an expensive 4th choice option.

Although strikers either seem to thrive or dive at Fir Park. Many strikers with worse ability than Brophy have done well with us. 

[Vietnam91]

1 hour ago, Desp said:

I mean, I get it, but you really shouldn't  be.  There's loads of factors in play here, it's not just they've both got 15 goals this season in a shite team.

For starters, Miovski is probably earning 4-5 times what Bair is.  That plays a factor in his worth.  Miovski was bought for quite a bit of money IIRC.  He's a regular international.  He's played, and scored, in European competition.  Aberdeen are a much bigger club than Motherwell.

There is absolutely not a chance in hell Bair would go for anything close to what Miovski will, and rightly so.

Thing is though I don't think if Turnbull was an Aberdeen academy graduate he would have went for anything north of what we got for him.

There's definitely a good PR campaign around Miovski but he's not worth £5m let alone £7m, it strikes more of setting a stupid high bar so a meet in the middle is palatable and can be sold as the player forced the move.

In this instance Bair has had a very good and productive 6 months whereas Miovski has been consistent in achieving good numbers throughout his arrival in Scotland.

It feels like Theo is worth a third of Miovski if sales went through today. If he stays and is on 15 by Xmas then that changes significantly.

[dinnae-punt-it]

6 hours ago, MurrayWell said:

"An experienced keeper" has already agreed a deal was some of the chat at the game too, which if true would likely suggest that Liam Kelly is offski, or if he is staying we have actual competition for the GK position. 

Not that I think we'd get him, but Mitov might have a relegation clause @Handsome_Devil, allowing him to leave if St Johnstone go down? 

Scott Bain then?

[capt_oats]

Looking at Transfermarkt it appears Brophy is contracted to 2025 so unless either they go down and he has a relegation clause, they're planning on mutualling him or we're prepared to pay a fee for a known sicknote I'd be surprised.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/eamonn-brophy/profil/spieler/265513

Like, January I could have seen it happening due to circumstances given we were scrambling and Arsenal had recalled Biereth but less so in a more open Summer market.

Edited May 6 by capt_oats

[boozyBJ]

13 minutes ago, dinnae-punt-it said:

Scott Bain then?

First name that popped into my head

[18May1991]

2 hours ago, Desp said:

If we can get £750k or thereabouts for Bair this summer, we should be biting their hand off!  Van Veen is the example we should be using with guys like Bair.  Sell at their highest point, make money for the club and the player himself, and move onto the next.  The surprise element has gone for Bair now so I don't see him improving further with us. 

I really hope it's not the experienced keeper I've been told about.

We need names. Or a name. 

[MearnsWell]

2 hours ago, welldaft said:

Some of the comments have given me the fear that Craig Samson is on his way back

I still have PTSD (post traumatic Samson disorder) from sitting behind the goals in the Cooper when I’d my season ticket there.

[eliphas]

1 hour ago, dinnae-punt-it said:

Scott Bain then?

People will be wishing for Kelly to come back if it's bloody Scott Bain

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, Vietnam91 said:

Thing is though I don't think if Turnbull was an Aberdeen academy graduate he would have went for anything north of what we got for him.

There's definitely a good PR campaign around Miovski but he's not worth £5m let alone £7m, it strikes more of setting a stupid high bar so a meet in the middle is palatable and can be sold as the player forced the move.

In this instance Bair has had a very good and productive 6 months whereas Miovski has been consistent in achieving good numbers throughout his arrival in Scotland.

It feels like Theo is worth a third of Miovski if sales went through today. If he stays and is on 15 by Xmas then that changes significantly.

Bigger clubs always tend to talk up their players, regardless of ability, whereas we tend to talk ours down. Less subjectively, doesn't Bair have a year less on his deal than Miovski? So in 13 months time he's worth precisely nothing, meaning we're just not going to get a mental bid for him now.

[capt_oats]

27 minutes ago, eliphas said:

People will be wishing for Kelly to come back if it's bloody Scott Bain

I'm not, and have never been a Scott Bain fan - he's just not the type of 'keeper I like, IMO he doesn't *look* like a goalkeeper -  but assuming Celtic aren't keeping him around on some HG technicality he absolutely tracks on the point that both @Desp and @MurrayWell have alluded to in that he'd be erm..divisive.

He's OOC, he has enough of a profile that he could be a #1 for us (or a peer group club), he's 'experienced' and he's also probably within budget (or at least available for less than Kelly).

For some reason I also get the impression that he's probably the sort of goalkeeper Kettlewell might like.

Like, if we were taking picks of Celtic goalkeepers who don't get a game I'd side with Siegrist but given he's still under contract it seems unlikely.

Truly cream always rises to the top eh @Ludo*1.

Edited May 6 by capt_oats

[eliphas]

Yeah I would not be in the slightest surprised he was the rumour. 

But, from a want Vs not want....seriously man. Bain.

If it's Bain and all our defensive woes have been caused by Kelly then we are in for another long season. 

I'm annoyed and he's not even here yet. Haha. 

Edited May 6 by eliphas

[capt_oats]

20 minutes ago, eliphas said:

Yeah I would not be in the slightest surprised he was the rumour. 

But, from a want Vs not want....seriously man. Bain.

If it's Bain and all our defensive woes have been caused by Kelly then we are in for another long season. 

I'm annoyed and he's not even here yet. Haha. 

Aye. I was just watching a YouTube clip of Bain (which @Ludo*1 posted below) and he's flying about the place making saves.

Like, honestly, just give me Mark Gillespie being entirely competent and taking crosses with absolutely zero drama. That's all I need lads.

Anyway, I notice McGinn played with him at Dundee so there's that as well.

Short sleeved GK shirts though. 

Edited May 6 by capt_oats

[Ludo*1]

At his peak at Dundee, there's no denying Scott Bain was absolutely sensational. He had about a 6-8 month stint where he was being compared to our two last greats in Rab Douglas and Julian Speroni. Some of the saves he'd pull off were absolutely sublime and despite not having a massive stature, he was absolutely dominant in his box.

Then it all changed and it was largely his attitude. Greg Stewart noted on a recent Open Goal podcast that he admired Scott Bain's 'don't give a f**k' attitude and he would regularly challenge the manager and that eventually came to boiling point when he went up against probably the most ill-tempered man currently associated with Scottish football in Neil McCann. Apparently they had a full on scrap at HT in a game against Hamilton in which his attempts at diving for the ball were absolutely pitiful. That was pretty much the end of his time at Dens as he was to play a game for the reserves as a punishment for his outburst and he failed to turn up and that was that.

His attitude was fucking shocking and he truly believed his own hype. His form was absolutely chronic, he became glued to his line, regularly argued with fans, and you could see he wasn't bothering his arse to try and save the ball. But his biggest flaw, even more than his attitude was his inability to lead a defence. Many keepers, in poorer Dundee teams have much better clean sheet records than Bain for us and that's the main reason.

To put it into context, Bain kept just 4 clean sheets in his final 54 games for us. Elliot Parish, a much poorer goalkeeper overall, kept 4 clean sheets in the 9 games Bain was still at Dundee but suspended. In that 54 game run, Bain was out injured for 2 games and David Mitchell, again, another keeper much less talented than Bain kept 2 clean sheets. In the season we were relegated under McPake/McGhee, despite playing through injury (and again being a much less naturally gifted goalkeeper than Bain) for most of the season, Adam Legzdins kept 6 clean sheets in 24 games. Now clean sheets don't tell you everything, but I would say Bain had the best defence out of all the keepers mentioned there as he had Thomas Konrad -- James McPake -- Kosta Gadzhalov - 3 defenders that Dundee fans have fond memories of in comparison to say, Liam Fontaine & Ryan Sweeney.

Scott Bain is an example of a completely wasted career. At his peak, I genuinely believe he was Scotland quality and not just make the numbers up like Kelly & Clark. But an atrocious fucking attitude, zero desire to keep on improving and the 'cream rising to the top' stopped him and he's now a distinctly average - at best - goalkeeper.

To end on a more positive note, some Celtic fan made a list of his best saves and it might make you realise that he was once had a touch of brilliance in him.