Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[capt_oats]

21 minutes ago, CoF said:

When you say go down that route, what exactly do you mean? The route of signing excellent goalkeepers? As @crazylegsjoe_mfc says, it’s harder than just plucking an out of favour keeper off a league one bench. 

If you mean out of favour at bigger English clubs, then you could argue that’s the mould of a lot of our recent keepers. Griffiths was at Everton, Oxborough - Norwich, Ripley - Middlesbrough, Chapman - Peterborough, Archer - just released by Fulham. All varying degrees of success.

We’ve definitely been spoiled by Ruddy, Randolph and Gillespie - here’s hoping you’re right in the next one coming in replicates their successes. 

Kelly was similarly 3rd/4th choice 'keeper at QPR. You can also add Long to that list as well given he was at Sheffield United and tbf has gone on to have a very decent career for himself.

Without wanting to step on @MurrayWell's point I'd guess the hope would be that we're looking at recruiting a player who fits a clear profile that has worked in the past. I agree that there are no guarantees but there are probably intangibles around the goalkeeping position that are quite hard to articulate outside of you kind of know when someone's been brought in as first choice.

Tbh, I know it's a turn of phrase but I'm not sure it's a case of us having been spoiled by Ruddy, Randolph and Gillespie it's more a case of our recruitment when it's come to #1s has just been good.

The only choice that stands out recently as absolute fuckery was the decision to just hand the gloves to Samson with Dean Brill as back-up along with whatever the f**k McCall was up to (delegating to Gordon Marshall?).

Since Randolph we've had these runs of first choices:

• Hollis/Nielsen
• Twardzik/Long
• Ripley
• Samson
• Carson
• Carson/Gillespie
• Carson/Chapman/Archer/Kelly
• Kelly

[MurrayWell]

38 minutes ago, CoF said:

When you say go down that route, what exactly do you mean? The route of signing excellent goalkeepers? As @crazylegsjoe_mfc says, it’s harder than just plucking an out of favour keeper off a league one bench. 
 

If you mean out of favour at bigger English clubs, then you could argue that’s the mould of a lot of our recent keepers. Griffiths was at Everton, Oxborough - Norwich, Ripley - Middlesbrough, Chapman - Peterborough, Archer - just released by Fulham. All varying degrees of success.
 

We’ve definitely been spoiled by Ruddy, Randolph and Gillespie - here’s hoping you’re right in the next one coming in replicates their successes. 
 

 

 

Signing excellent goalkeepers would be a great tactic eh?

I more mean looking to bring someone in as number one with a career ahead of them, rather than someone at 36 who we'll have very little resale value in. Mentioned Ruddy/Randolph/Gillespie as they should be our go to names for getting those of similar standing to choose us rather than a rival. Obviously as you say there is no guarantee someone will settle, which is why I mentioned having experienced back up might not be a bad idea.

[Handsome_Devil]

1 hour ago, welldaft said:

However the reality is Kettlewell stated clearly that he has not spoken to Kelly about this, is unaware of any other clubs interest in him and is hoping to keep him. 

He could just as easily say - we are aware of interest in Liam and that does not surprise me. We still hope to keep him but finance will be a factor etc. I mean I really see little point in our Manager telling porkies over a GK most of us would be happy to see move on. Also for all his lengthy chats Ketts gives me the impression he tends to tell it as it is. 

I'm sure he hasn't spoken to Kelly about it, and very deliberately so. I'm also sure his agent will be keeping us informed.

If you have open press conferences every week, maintaining the ridiculous pretense we don't know what's going on simply avoids plenty of potentially awkward questions.

[Handsome_Devil]

32 minutes ago, MurrayWell said:

Signing excellent goalkeepers would be a great tactic eh?

I more mean looking to bring someone in as number one with a career ahead of them, rather than someone at 36 who we'll have very little resale value in. Mentioned Ruddy/Randolph/Gillespie as they should be our go to names for getting those of similar standing to choose us rather than a rival. Obviously as you say there is no guarantee someone will settle, which is why I mentioned having experienced back up might not be a bad idea.

Resale value isn't something we should worry about for keepers imo. It's an exceptional position which merits its own approach.

We've seen with ourselves and others that selling goalkeepers is incredibly hard. Pay the money for the best we can afford in the present and consider it well spent for the time that guy is there.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

In all my years supporting Motherwell, I don't think we've sold a goalkeeper for a transfer fee (Andy Goram to Man Utd may have had a loan fee), or brought in one from our academy (I'm not including Ross Stewart's 1 minute appearance).

Kelly being signed for a fee is an obvious exception, but generally we get keepers who arrive for free and leave for free.

 

[MurrayWell]

17 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Resale value isn't something we should worry about for keepers imo. It's an exceptional position which merits its own approach.

We've seen with ourselves and others that selling goalkeepers is incredibly hard. Pay the money for the best we can afford in the present and consider it well spent for the time that guy is there.

Aye, you're probably right here, I'd imagine it's something we canny completely dismiss as a selling club, but may well be a lower priority. I remember expecting us to make a fair bit off of Randolph and we got nothing in the end, and as you've said others seem to struggle when it comes to selling keepers. 

I think ideally for us we sign a number one with a point to prove and have someone who has some experience as back-up, but I also suspect that's not an easy thing to do either for a club with our budget.

Edited May 10 by MurrayWell

[well fan for life]

We'll get a year or two down the line and we'll remember Liam Kelly for what he actually was. An average top flight goalkeeper in this league.

And a bit of a weirdo on social media.

[welldaft]

1 hour ago, Handsome_Devil said:

I'm sure he hasn't spoken to Kelly about it, and very deliberately so. I'm also sure his agent will be keeping us informed.

If you have open press conferences every week, maintaining the ridiculous pretense we don't know what's going on simply avoids plenty of potentially awkward questions.

Fair enough on the last point. I still think Ketts would blurb out the truth. But maybe he is more astute and devious than I give him credit for. 

The only other thing I can think of is I am sure Ketts said many moons ago that he does not go near social media. Maybe he thinks that we fans are all desperate to keep Kelly as future No 1 and Captain and does not want to upset us by confirming he is 100% offski…

[Lobby Dossar]

53 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

In all my years supporting Motherwell, I don't think we've sold a goalkeeper for a transfer fee (Andy Goram to Man Utd may have had a loan fee), or brought in one from our academy (I'm not including Ross Stewart's 1 minute appearance).

Kelly being signed for a fee is an obvious exception, but generally we get keepers who arrive for free and leave for free.

 

We sold Keith MacRae to Manchester City 

[Antiochas III]

1 hour ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

In all my years supporting Motherwell, I don't think we've sold a goalkeeper for a transfer fee (Andy Goram to Man Utd may have had a loan fee), or brought in one from our academy (I'm not including Ross Stewart's 1 minute appearance).

Kelly being signed for a fee is an obvious exception, but generally we get keepers who arrive for free and leave for free.

 

We've not had a keeper come through and play since Ally Maxwell. 

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

12 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said:

We sold Keith MacRae to Manchester City 

That's why I said in all my years, 1973 was a good 24 years before I graced Fir Park 

[Handsome_Devil]

44 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Fair enough on the last point. I still think Ketts would blurb out the truth. But maybe he is more astute and devious than I give him credit for. 

The only other thing I can think of is I am sure Ketts said many moons ago that he does not go near social media. Maybe he thinks that we fans are all desperate to keep Kelly as future No 1 and Captain and does not want to upset us by confirming he is 100% offski…

Ha ha, I can imagine the look of our comms people while practicing difficult questions with SK, "just keep it simple and short, oh dear...".

[Guest]

Think the Kelly experiment was something I wouldn't try again. He was clearly signed to try and sell on for a profit, but that didn't work out. There is no way he is staying with us on less money, so hopefully we bring in a goallie that commands his box and is  good shot stopper. Oh as my name suggests, he is

[Handsome_Devil]

18 minutes ago, Yabba is a Turd said:

Think the Kelly experiment was something I wouldn't try again. He was clearly signed to try and sell on for a profit, but that didn't work out. There is no way he is staying with us on less money, so hopefully we bring in a goallie that commands his box and is  good shot stopper. Oh as my name suggests, he is

Kelly played a massive part in keeping us up in his loan spell and securing European football. Even last season I suspect he was clearly in the positive for his net points contribution. This season, bit shit for sure, but if you're considering it an "experiment" there's no way it failed in terms of the return even if wildly optimistic hopes of actually selling him didn't work out.

It's time for a change for sure not nor should we suddenly rewrite Kelly's spell with us to be worse than it was.

[Swello]

 

Well done to, ahem, King Con.

[Desp]

3 minutes ago, Swello said:

 

Well done to, ahem, King Con.

The guy at the back of the East Stand who shouted nothing but "Come on Connor!" for a full season will be absolutely over the moon.

[capt_oats]

7 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Kelly played a massive part in keeping us up in his loan spell and securing European football. Even last season I suspect he was clearly in the positive for his net points contribution. This season, bit shit for sure, but if you're considering it an "experiment" there's no way it failed in terms of the return even if wildly optimistic hopes of actually selling him didn't work out.

It's time for a change for sure not nor should we suddenly rewrite Kelly's spell with us to be worse than it was.

100% this.

The idea that because we didn't sell him for profit then his spell is somehow diminished is for the birds tbqh.

Would it have been nice to sell him for £1m? Sure. That we didn't doesn't change that over his time at the club he's had a net positive contribution.

[Desp]

Just now, capt_oats said:

100% this.

The idea that because we didn't sell him for profit then his spell is somehow diminished is for the birds tbqh.

Would it have been nice to sell him for £1m? Sure. That we didn't doesn't change that over his time at the club he's had a net positive contribution.

 You could've just copied & pasted this from when Randolph left.

[welldaft]

9 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Kelly played a massive part in keeping us up in his loan spell and securing European football. Even last season I suspect he was clearly in the positive for his net points contribution. This season, bit shit for sure, but if you're considering it an "experiment" there's no way it failed in terms of the return even if wildly optimistic hopes of actually selling him didn't work out.

It's time for a change for sure not nor should we suddenly rewrite Kelly's spell with us to be worse than it was.

Probably not altogether accurate but I would say during his time with us his 1st 1/3 was very good. He was excellent for us when he came on loan from QPR. Otherwise I suspect there would have been more of a noise surrounding us signing him and his salary.

His 2nd 1/3 as it were was OK. UPS and downs and I would say he was acceptable.

This final 1/3 I would say had been bang average. He has had two or three good games notably against the Old Firm. But the stats do not lie. Lowest save % in the top flight and fewest clean sheets. The latter you can include the defence as being culpable and a contributory factor. The save % is what it is. Add in his howler at Morton in the cup and I would say time to go which he will be all things probable. 

[Desp]

Hasn't the "he's on £4k a week" story been rubbished several times on here?

The chat was, although he's at the higher end of our pay scale, he got a large signing-on-fee which made up for his considerable wage drop when leaving QPR.