Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

7 minutes ago, welldaft said:

The other thing that bemuses me is that if after 2 years we want to move on from Erik and Wild Sheep. Then the WS pay the £600k investment back in full + 10% interest. I mean…..hello.

Let's be honest, that clause is included as a get out to people who are desperate for investment under almost any conditions and believe risking the long-term future security is worth it for potential short-term gain...it takes two minutes of thought to conclude a practical implementation of it is all but impossible.

[welldaft]

7 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

it takes two minutes of thought to conclude a practical implementation of it is all but impossible.

Your IQ must be higher than mine then .

It forms part of the proposal and I assume would be written into any contract. Whether it was enforced is another matter. Legally it could be is all that matters. 

['WellDel]

While we're advocating ousting directors/overthrowing the board. Can I ask that we also make space in the cannon for whoever signed off on that warm up gear when we're firing them into the sun. Horrific effort. 

[Handsome_Devil]

42 minutes ago, welldaft said:

Your IQ must be higher than mine then .

It forms part of the proposal and I assume would be written into any contract. Whether it was enforced is another matter. Legally it could be is all that matters. 

You may very well think that, I couldn't possibly comment...nah, apologies if that came over as snarky, it was far from my intention.

But the rough logic (and as I say, this is a two minute thought so there'll be things missed) following acceptance:

The six on the board will who support fan ownership will resign. They have no choice really, their position would be even less tenable than the other three.

Those who favour ending majority ownership would then need to take over and adapt the Society legally (a minefield, I suspect) and practically (hardly a gimmie either but less of a problem when you want to hand over control anyway).

Ordinary members will stop their donations (I'd be cancelling the direct debits that morning and I wouldn't be the only one) and fundraising through the new board will be non-existent - a lack of faith in the ability of the Society/fans to raise money is one of the reasons they voted yes, they certainly won't be pulling up trees now having just lost 37-49% of the members.

With minimal income the Society will need to use its reserves to meet the obligations the new board supported. The chance of them having £660k in 2026 plus the funds we'd want as a safety net is effectively nil.

Even if the money was there, the new board - by nature of how they came to be in place - have already said they're done with fan majority ownership. The chances of a change of heart perhaps isn't nil but not far from it.

An alternative wild scenario would be the current six stay in place, hogging the board seats (like Dickie) effectively without a mandate. But that's totally unrealistic, they'd be obligated to enter the deal they object to in principle while trying to rally members who rejected them, and sacrifice hours and hours as volunteers for a one in a million chance of salvaging it two years from now? No chance.

It cannot be emphasised enough, this is a one-time question and if we sell out now there's no going back.

Edited June 12 by Handsome_Devil

[capt_oats]

Oh...

[Cedrics Mighty Well Army]

If you think EB's offer is bad, Dumbarton sold out to a Norwegian architect and his property-developing mate who have a sub-company called "New Homes DFC Ltd."

Edited June 12 by Cedrics Mighty Well Army

[Pettywulliegrew-2]

Possibly first image of next seasons kit….new back of kit sponsors announcement 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/06/12/fire-suppression-scotland/
 

compared to this seasons 

https://motherwelldirect.co.uk/products/23-24-home-jersey-s-s

[YassinMoutaouakil]

We're tempting fate with that sponsor. This'll be the season the POD finally goes down in flames 

['WellDel]

4 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

We're tempting fate with that sponsor. This'll be the season the POD finally goes down in flames 

Ignited by the laughable investment bid crashing and burning. 

[Phillips455]

15 minutes ago, Pettywulliegrew-2 said:

Possibly first image of next seasons kit….new back of kit sponsors announcement 

https://www.motherwellfc.co.uk/2024/06/12/fire-suppression-scotland/
 

compared to this seasons 

https://motherwelldirect.co.uk/products/23-24-home-jersey-s-s

Seems to be last seasons top, with the scarf covering the steelmen and neck bits.

you can see the same square pattern across the shirt. So unless we are reusing last seasons top for next season, I do t think this is the new kit yet.

[Desp]

This vote surely won't pass, will it?

Effectively we're asking WS Members (many of who pay in every month), who are members because they believe in the concept of Fan/WS Ownership, to vote for making the WS null & void? 

I might be giving the wider Motherwell fanbase too much credit here, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Get this deal binned and after that, I really hope those left on the WS Board (why the f**k hasn't Feeley resigned yet?) go to absolute town on the arseholes who tried to sell the club down the river.  Like both fucking barrels on them. 

Edited June 12 by Desp

[ML4]

6 hours ago, Vietnam91 said:

Big plus having a ready made crowdfunder set up to get us to match your input. The reason you won't accept a smaller shareholding than the WS is because it would be hard to justify a casting vote while sitting on 44% to the WS's 49%. But this is all about control and always has been.

 

Getting on to valuation.

First thing to ascertain, who derived this EV figure, you, McMahon or someone else?

The Enterprise Value (EV) Formula = Market Cap + Total Debt (short and long term) − Cash & cash equivalents (liquid assets)

The debt figure used should be net, not the gross, whoever did this sum did not include the liquid assets of the club (£3.59m). Our figures in reality are:

• £1.94m (short term) + £1.54m (long term) = £3.48m total debt minus £3.59m total assets (bank and debtors) = net debt of -£110k
• Puts a very different complexion on the published EV, in reality by offering £1.95m for 49% the TRUE ENTERPRISE VALUE is £3.8m NOT £7.7m cited on the official site, it is a gross misrepresentation and doubled overstatement by just under £4m.

The fact this was even published when so incorrect is a scandal and alone should be a disqualifier. My head is literally spinning at the audacity of this being overlooked or done deliberately because it's one of the two. How many people read that overstated valuation and found it palatable?

To compare this to Hibs, a 25% stake was purchased for £6m - prices the equity in the club at £24m – with the addition of the NET DEBT of £6.2m (£13.7m total debt minus £7.5m liquid assets) that equates to an Enterprise Value of £30.2m for the whole club.

The corrected Barmack valuation of Motherwell remains as 1/6th (16.7%) of the equity value of Hibs, however his offer means our real EV equates to 1/8th (12.5%) of Hibs EV value (opposed to 1/4 with the original incorrect figures). Pretty sobering! But let's distract with talk about Newcastle United!

To put this another way, it means he is looking to pay 6.25% or 1/24th of the value of Hibs to get half of our club ..... on tic

If an EV value the club of £7.7m is the aim, it means a 49% acquired holding jumps from costing Erik £1.95m to £3.85m. He would have to find another £2m roughly because our liquid assets cancel out our total debt, something omitted from figures published on the club website.

This is what I'm talking about getting into the weeds, its an expression about extracting the details. If you wish to spin a negative connotation then crack on. The LA based multi-millionaire as a victim is a tough sell on here when a big bit of your plan is advocating a pensioner throws in an extra £5 per month. You perceived I suggested nefarious intent, I could equally argue it elicits a defensive response if shining a light and holding feet to the fire. Stuff like overstating something by 100%/£4m tends to increase scepticism tenfold.

 

Onto the board ....... both the club appointees are already on the board from the 29th of April, no election required. From the Articles of Association the majority shareholder can remove any board member by informing the club secretary in writing. Also, not much in theory to stop the majority shareholder sacking the CEO or Finance Director and appointing their own candidate, then every vote is carried. This is why you NEED the casting vote and a greater shareholding than the WS.

 

Sorry but ... whit? This is a meaningless word salad. Can we get serious?

6 WS board members voted to put out the as strong as you can get of strongly worded counter statements to your offer. Two resigned rather than explain why they supported it and one other .... who knows. I suspect we'll hear hee-haw. Many would be willing to work with you with a smaller shareholding on fairer terms than present, however the current offer is weighted heavily in your favour and at every turn. The easiest solution would be to take 20% of the WS 71.7%, get two board seats, no need for new shares issued, dilutions, etc. But that will never fly eh?

 

Easy, if its this or fan ownership, the latter hands down. We may for the first time truly since John Boyle facilitated the Society have the club, society and all personnel pulling in the same direction rather than sniping, self aggrandisement, ego fluffing and silo building. When we sell Theo Bair for £1.5m this summer we can offer you something on our terms, not yours. 

 

Finally, the Football Supporters Association define fan/supporter ownership as:

Your proposal kills this so please don't use the term going forward because it's simply not true and disingenuous to even allude it would remain a thing.

The Well Society should be emailing that valuation explanation to the members immediately.

[steelmen]

i really want to believe this won't pass but there is a fair few vocal supporter who truly believe that any investment is needed (thanks McMahon) and that the Society is failing (due to being near the relegation zone the last 2 years)

these people will just vote yes as they believe the board know best.

I just hope there are more sensible members who will take the time to look at it sensibly and make an informed decision, which i hope is to reject it.

[standupforthemotherwell]

1 minute ago, ML4 said:

The Well Society should be emailing that valuation explanation to the members immediately.

Putting a rational hat on, both parties should have engaged the services of a professional to value the company then there could be no question of it being correct.

Personally the value is less concerning to me based on the fact that the club is only worth what someone is willing to pay and no one has valued it higher to our knowledge. The red lines for me are the loss of WS control and writing off the loan.

[Handsome_Devil]

24 minutes ago, Desp said:

This vote surely won't pass, will it?

Effectively we're asking WS Members (many of who pay in every month), who are members because they believe in the concept of Fan/WS Ownership, to vote for making the WS null & void? 

I might be giving the wider Motherwell fanbase too much credit here, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Get this deal binned and after that, I really hope those left on the WS Board (why the f**k hasn't Feeley resigned yet?) go to absolute town on the arseholes who tried to sell the club down the river.  Like both fucking barrels on them. 

Can only hope you're right but given 63% voted to consider giving up control, I certainly have some nerves about it.

[well fan for life]

It's important to note that the WS did canvas the members on whether they would consider outside investment and the outcome was very much in favour. To boot oor Erik's bid into the sea and claim "look it's all shite" would also be against the will of the members. We should continually look at investment options and only accept one that suits everybody involved. 

With the makeup of folk on the WS board I can't see them being willing to look into any other opportunities, given the views of those that represent there. 

My tuppence worth: McMahon and his buds wanted some sort of legacy project left so railroaded this through. Now we're in this sorry state of affairs. The sooner he leaves his post the better. 

 

[Desp]

Just now, Handsome_Devil said:

Can only hope you're right but given 63% voted to consider giving up control, I certainly have some nerves about it.

I know what you mean, but that was only to consider it.  If an unbelievable offer was on the table, then you'd understand people deciding to vote for it.

Voting for THIS offer is lunacy.  

[Handsome_Devil]

Just now, Desp said:

I know what you mean, but that was only to consider it.  If an unbelievable offer was on the table, then you'd understand people deciding to vote for it.

Voting for THIS offer is lunacy.  

Again, hope you're right but some folk will be disillusioned with the Society, some will misunderstand the consequences blah blah. I very much doubt it'll be a landslide.

[Busta Nut]

22 minutes ago, Desp said:

This vote surely won't pass, will it?

Effectively we're asking WS Members (many of who pay in every month), who are members because they believe in the concept of Fan/WS Ownership, to vote for making the WS null & void? 

I might be giving the wider Motherwell fanbase too much credit here, but that's not going to happen, is it?

Get this deal binned and after that, I really hope those left on the WS Board (why the f**k hasn't Feeley resigned yet?) go to absolute town on the arseholes who tried to sell the club down the river.  Like both fucking barrels on them. 

This was my hope, folk who believe in the WS would surely not vote for it's downfall. Then three of the clowns who head the thing voted for it to fail.

I think the folk in favour of this, won't be members as a lot of them seem to think the WS has been a failure. Or are basing their thoughts on buzzwords that there is no concrete basis for. (connections, experience & contacts was one I saw)

As for Feeley, I've said it afore (and I am probably wrong) but he won't resign. He'll suddenly be in favour of and have belief in the WS. 

[steelmen]

I would really like someone from the executive board to come out and do a Q&A for why they unanimously accepted this deal or at least respond to the Society's statement.

what's the phrase about deafening and silence?