Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[rowsdower]

Spittal looked better today as part of the front three with Cornelius in midfield. I'm not a big fan of him in the midfield three.

Shields has no attacking instinct, which is not good when you're an attacker. 

 

[CoF]

It’s a bit weird watching this team just now. It feels like we’re playing both kinda okay-ish and kinda shite at the same time. 

There’s definitely a problem with the squad as it is, however I feel like the addition of a solid defensive midfielder and someone with attacking quality the whole complexion of the squad could change. I honestly don’t think we need wholesale changes, I think we’ve got enough decent enough players that would get a lift from a just a couple of good additions. I also like what I’ve seen from Hammell so far, and I think he’s been completely hamstrung (no pun) by having f**k all options. 

It’s clear the squad is playing at the max of their collective capability. This window will see our season go either way… 

[Kapowzer]

3 hours ago, capt_oats said:

I kind of feel sorry for Shields in so much that his confidence is clearly shot but it feels like he's getting chucked out on to the park week in, week out because we have few other options rather than us expecting him to impact the game.

When Hammell got the job he spoke about us needing to improve the quality in the attacking third and tbh it was pretty clear he was talking about players like Shields and Efford as not being up to it for starting spots - hence McKinstry and Aarons being brought in. With Aarons leg exploding we're pretty much back to square one.

He's the sort of player you'd have hoped Hammell might have been able to free up and get a tune out of in the same way Alexander did with Cole and Watt but there seems to be absolutely zero sign of that being something that's likely to happen.

It just seems like it's a case of him grafting his way through 90 mins now

He was one of the players knocking on Alexander's door this time a year ago demanding more gametime or punted out on loan. Well he got it through a mixture of things but mainly because he's avoided injury while others haven't.

Similar to Jake Carroll, he's given a chance again and again and it's not clicking. To be fair to him, Efford only started clicking about 3 games before he got crocked but has employed some voodoo to give him a mythical status on here among a few. I'm sure Shields would benefit from a Scott McDonald coaching him through a game or in the very least putting him as one of a front two.

I do suspect he could carve out an average 10 year career in the Championship before dropping down to Div 1, he reeks of Bob McHugh. Not his fault though, with his physique, age and limited ability he should have been a sub to keep the defence on their toes with his pace or covering back deeper than normal to protect a lead. He cuts a lonely figure out on the wing and while its not his preferred position, look up and use what little assets you have, he's build like a brick shit house but you'd not know it.

Ask yourself this however, do you think many opposition managers factor him into their game plan as a potential risk that needs addressed? I'd say a big fat f**k all there.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

I don't think Shields is anywhere near the standard required but I also don't think we've utilised his attribute(s?) particularly well under either manager. I'm not a tactics guy but you'd think we'd have found a way to get somebody as fast as him in behind defences more often than we have.

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

2 hours ago, Blink182 said:

Efford being described as a (wee) step above some in our current starting 11 pretty much sums up the current season pretty well doesn't it. 

Efford was on to a bit of a game. I think he actually worked on some things. He developed a move to beat a full back and his touch improved a bit. One of his problems was that even he didn't know what he was going to do when he got the ball.

Shields knows what he is going to do when he gets the ball, head down and run forward.

33 minutes ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

I don't think Shields is anywhere near the standard required but I also don't think we've utilised his attribute(s?) particularly well under either manager. I'm not a tactics guy but you'd think we'd have found a way to get somebody as fast as him in behind defences more often than we have.

His finishing and final ball is rank. His movement isn't great either. He needs to be calling for balls into channels and over the top. Goss, Slattery and even Lamie can and do ping passes. He just doesn't have any positional awareness

[well fan for life]

I think Shields could probably do with a spell out the team but as a few folk have pointed out we have nothing to replace him with. 

FWIW I thought Cornelius was a welcome improvement to the midfield instead of Spittal being in there. Unfortunately we're still hopeless at the back, in dire need of a 6 and just anybody else to play up front. 

[welldaft]

How about this for a complete mindf*ck.

For such a shit defence (and I am not arguing differently) there are only 3 teams in the top flight so far this season that have conceded less goals. Obviously Celtic and Rangers and somewhat surprisingly St Mirren. But even Hearts and Aberdeen have conceded more. Not much in it granted.

I suspect what highlights our deficiencies is the fact we are only scoring 1.2 goals a game. So every awful goal we concede tends to have a negative impact of the final result. 

So is our defence as bad as everyone is making out

[Luke92]

To be honest I'm fed up with this current crop of players. They aren't the worst mwell team I've seen but the lack of quality isn't far off. Yesterday was a depressing watch and there wasn't many positives for me. We've got a number of guys who aren't going to cut it at this level and wouldn't get a game for any other team in the league then we have a number of guys who think they are much better than they actually are. Not a good combination.

Sunday is a massive game, I was looking at the table and can't believe we are in January have only won 1 game at Fir Park. HIbs are rotten but have a lot more depth and quality than ourselves so its going to be a huge game. 

We can't just keep blaming every manager. The players, club and 'recruitment team' need to start taking a look in the mirror. Our squad is threadbare at the moment, I'm afraid 1 or 2 signings isn't going to cut it. I don't want to go over old ground again but there are multiple positions the club has ignored for the past two seasons and this is now coming home to roost.

I know they hate doing it but the club is going to have to dip into its funds and actually recruit some half decent players if we want to avoid another relegation dogfight

Edited January 3, 2023 by Luke92

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

3 hours ago, welldaft said:

How about this for a complete mindf*ck.

For such a shit defence (and I am not arguing differently) there are only 3 teams in the top flight so far this season that have conceded less goals. Obviously Celtic and Rangers and somewhat surprisingly St Mirren. But even Hearts and Aberdeen have conceded more. Not much in it granted.

I suspect what highlights our deficiencies is the fact we are only scoring 1.2 goals a game. So every awful goal we concede tends to have a negative impact of the final result. 

So is our defence as bad as everyone is making out

Bizarrely, we are almost identical on goals for / against this season as we were last season.

Last season we were F23/A26 in 4th place with 28 points.
Our defence was ranked 9th in the league.
Our attack was ranked joint 6th in the league.

This season we are F23/A28 in 10th place with 19 points.
Our defence is ranked 4th in the league.
Our attack is ranked joint 7th in the league.

I think the difference is that in the first half of last season, among our good results, a good bit of that goals against column came in getting beat 3-0 by Dundee and 6-1 by Rangers. The goals for column, this season for our number of points it is probably blown up by beating Ross County 5-0, whereas last season we didn't score more than 2 in any game until April.

This season, only three of our games have been settled by more than a goal - the Ross County game in our favour, 0-3 at home to Hearts in September and 0-3 to Rangers the other night. We are getting beaten more frequently than we were last season, but we are not getting pumped basically. I don't think it's the volume of goals that are the issue, but more the manner, the goals we do seem to concede are soft as shite and then given we don't seem to have much in the way of response, they are proving to be costly - which probably is as much on the attack as it is on the defence. 

We were also beaten to nil in 4 of our 7 defeats at this stage last season, whereas that's only happened 3 times out of 10 this season, including the 3-2 defeat to Hearts, so that means 8 of our 23 goals have counted for no points whatsoever.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by crazylegsjoe_mfc

[ropy]

I haven’t seen a game since St Johnstone in November but sometimes I think we just need something to click.  Like it did in the second half up at Ross County.  I guess Hammell needs to provide the click.  But most of the grasping defeat from the jaws of victory have been as a result of f**k ups on the pitch, not decisions by the manager.

I wasn’t at the Killie game but I wonder if Hammell made subs when we were 2-0 up and we then conceded twice, would he get hammered for changing a winning team?

[YassinMoutaouakil]

Our home form is abysmal but by my count our pre-split Fir Park games (not in order) are Rangers, Hearts, Hibs, St Mirren, Livi, United, St Johnstone and Ross County. If we can't win at least half of them we probably deserve to go down.

[well fan for life]

6 minutes ago, ropy said:

I wasn’t at the Killie game but I wonder if Hammell made subs when we were 2-0 up and we then conceded twice, would he get hammered for changing a winning team?

I think the problem is that if we need to change a game in any way, shape or form then we have nothing on the bench to do so. Whether that's looking for a goal to win a game, or seeing a game out. When you look at what we had on the bench that day:

It's not exactly helpful. Maguire's repeatedly proven that he's nowhere near good enough, Cornelius you'd make an argument for just for the legs and the rest are either kids, attacking options or complete shit. 

[Well Well]

1 hour ago, Luke92 said:

I know they hate doing it but the club is going to have to dip into its funds and actually recruit some half decent players if we want to avoid another relegation dogfight

What funds? 

[capt_oats]

Having fun trying to parse this from Hammell yesterday but either way it's a bit more encouraging than the "one or two" chat.

Quote

"We're hoping to get at least one in before the weekend and I hope we can do that, but until then I don't think it's right to speak about other teams' players.

But there is more than one player that we're enquiring about and we're hoping we're going to be further down the line with that sooner rather than later."

Link

[dezz]

Anyone up for a Kaiyne Woollery return?

[well fan for life]

14 minutes ago, dezz said:

Anyone up for a Kaiyne Woollery return?

Compared to Shields that's a superb signing. 

[rowsdower]

I like that he apologized for being shite for them, you can't beat good manners.

[Mr Hahn]

Weird coincidence, was actually thinking about Woolery the other day and if he'd make a difference in this current team.

If he's had to apologise for not playing well, his confidence is potentially not very high and not sure returning to a baltic, rainy Scottish winter from Turkey for a relegation scrap would inspire that to improve.

That said, if we got a similar player back to the one that left I'd take him. At the very least he's a big strong lad who puts himself about which we're somewhat lacking atm.

[well fan for life]

He fits the former player criteria. We just need him to have a long term injury to recover from and he's guaranteed a 3 year deal. 

[capt_oats]

22 hours ago, 'WellDel said:

A leader, we really fucking need a leader. This relegation fight will go right to the wire and our squad is so poor. We desperately need someone who can drag the levels of some of these donkeys from brutal to even mediocre to stand a fighting chance. 

Tbh, this is why I'd imagine there was enthusiasm on The Thread when the Davis link broke in the summer and also when we were pitching to Snodgrass.

I'm not as down on this squad as others. For me it's just very, very thin and we're wildly reliant on two or three players but I absolutely agree with the point that we're missing a couple of players who can raise the levels of those around them.

Seeing how things are going for Snodgrass at Tynecastle just now it's hard not to think that we'd look a very different team if we'd been able to drop him into our starting XI.

Genuinely difficult to think of similar options cutting about who'd be in our ballpark tbh.