Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome_Devil]

27 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

I dunno, I quite like Obika for some unfathomable reason.  

He’s this season’s Mandron, a loveable yet pish rogue.  

I’d just stick Luca Ross up with Mika, can’t be any worse.

I think he and Bair are both pish and while Wilkinson can obviously finish, he doesn't score enough/the other 10 aren't good enough to carry an only scores goals type.

Bair seems to have done better off the bench at times so I'd be tempted to go that order but frankly you could toss a coin for all the likely difference.

[Neil86]

4 hours ago, YassinMoutaouakil said:

Was Keith Lasley the only guy on his course or something? I'm not going to pretend I know anything about it but I'd be surprised if there weren't a few more recently retired players around the country exploring similar qualifications that we could sound out.

Not that I am suggesting we go for him but I am sure Mcgeady is taking up a similar-ish role at Ayr, I also think i've read about another player quite recently. it evades me though.

 

[well fan for life]

Going by what Kettlewell's just said in that presser there's no chance Kelly's getting dropped.

As for the rest of the team, f**k knows.

[capt_oats]

31 minutes ago, well fan for life said:

Going by what Kettlewell's just said in that presser there's no chance Kelly's getting dropped.

As for the rest of the team, f**k knows.

The presser in question.

[Swami]

"The only way you ever get control of these situations is by winning because in this country we are so knee jerk. We don't strip layers back and look at factors like budget, size of squad, injuries.“

This quote from the article on the BBC has really wound me up. We’re all aware of these factors, but it may be worth mentioning that the signing of a load of horseshit to play up front and the fact that the defence look like they spend the weeks in between games binging on crystal meth are a bit more of an issue than our injuries. And our budget didn’t pick the team the other night, that was solely on the manager. 

[2426255]

3 minutes ago, Swami said:

"The only way you ever get control of these situations is by winning because in this country we are so knee jerk. We don't strip layers back and look at factors like budget, size of squad, injuries.“

This quote from the article on the BBC has really wound me up. We’re all aware of these factors, but it may be worth mentioning that the signing of a load of horseshit to play up front and the fact that the defence look like they spend the weeks in between games binging on crystal meth are a bit more of an issue than our injuries. And our budget didn’t pick the team the other night, that was solely on the manager. 

He's not wrong. Fans are knee jerk and don't strip the layers back. They just want results and that's it. If you're aware of the factors then you'll know why you've signed horseshit players (budget). At what point did it start going wrong for Kettlewell just out of interest?

[CoF]

[Handsome_Devil]

2 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

He's not wrong. Fans are knee jerk and don't strip the layers back. They just want results and that's it. If you're aware of the factors then you'll know why you've signed horseshit players (budget). At what point did it start going wrong for Kettlewell just out of interest?

Other than a bit of venting online, no one seriously objects to us signing shit - you think we don't know the budget situation?!

The objections signing-wise are mainly the principle of wasting money on two guys who are chronically injured. A point made worse by Moult, who we rightly turned down, finally being seemingly fit.

Beyond that, everyone gave him time when losing until it became clear he wasn't returning to the approach which brought him success. 

I honestly reckon that if he'd not changed to a ridiculous formation and kept playing the best we have, shit as they might be, in their proper positions then even with our comical run he wouldn't be facing the end.

[2426255]

9 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Other than a bit of venting online, no one seriously objects to us signing shit - you think we don't know the budget situation?!

The objections signing-wise are mainly the principle of wasting money on two guys who are chronically injured. A point made worse by Moult, who we rightly turned down, finally being seemingly fit.

Beyond that, everyone gave him time when losing until it became clear he wasn't returning to the approach which brought him success. 

I honestly reckon that if he'd not changed to a ridiculous formation and kept playing the best we have, shit as they might be, in their proper positions then even with our comical run he wouldn't be facing the end.

Thanks. It would be interesting to know his reasons for changing things up tactically then, I don't know if he discusses that in his press duties - you have to presume there is a reason other than self sabotage. At Scottish Premiership level I'd have thought it would be realistic that the level of signings will be dross more often than not and I'd also probably expect a bit of gambling on chronically injured players. I think we see that at other clubs.

Odd that he started the season so well and it's been moving southward for a while. I'd like to know what the reason for that actually is.

Edited December 7, 2023 by 2426255

[ropy]

5 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Thanks. It would be interesting to know his reasons for changing things up tactically then, I don't know if he discusses that in his press duties - you have to presume there is a reason other than self sabotage. At Scottish Premiership level I'd have thought it would be realistic that the level of signings will be dross more often than not and I'd also probably expect a bit of gambling on chronically injured players. I think we see that at other clubs.

Odd that he started the season so well and it's been moving southward for a while. I'd like to know what the reason for that actually is.

Maybe it’s just our turn

[one m in Motherwell]

This image just sums up Motherwell’s season, doesn’t it?

[Handsome_Devil]

Just now, 2426255 said:

Thanks. It would be interesting to know his reasons for changing things up tactically then, I don't know if he discusses that in his press duties - you have to presume there is a reason other than self sabotage. At Scottish Premiership level I'd have thought it would be realistic that the level of signings will be dross more often than not and I'd also probably expect a bit of gambling on chronically injured players. 

Odd that he started the season so well and it's been moving southward for a while. I'd like to know what the reason for that actually is.

A total guess obviously but I reckon he did what a lot of managers do and is suffering from overestimating his ability after a good spell.

He tightened us up because Carey and Butcher were excellent, and he had everyone playing in their position doing the simple things.

The high point was his switch to 3-6-1 in the comeback win over Killie. But although we beat Hearts doing that, he kept at it way too long when it was clearly rumbled.

Then rather return to 3-5-2, we've often played 5-2-3 which, with our level of players, is simply asking for trouble.

And fair enough, perhaps Davor in midfield was just a bad signing who can't push ahead of others but his total refusal to start the lwb he signed at lwb, instead playing a right-footer there and persisting with the mediocre SOD, is mind-boggling. Gent definitely boosts us going forward and he's certainly not going to cause the defence to get much worse than it already is...

The fact he absolutely tied himself in knots to the extent we end up starting Blair Spittal at lwb suggests there's no recovery.

Which is a real shame because I - and I think most others - would have tolerated a grim 10th placed season to calm down from all the recent managerial upheaval. But if the manager has lost the plot and the players chucked it - as suggested by Tuesday - you don't have much choice really.

[AdamMFC]

Kelly backing the manager with "he's a top manager who doesn't leave any stone unturned". Of course he's going to say that though cause he knows his spot is safe as any other manager would have dropped him a long time ago.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/stuart-kettlewell-receives-meaningful-motherwell-31614271

[capt_oats]

Just now, AdamMFC said:

Kelly backing the manager with "he's a top manager who doesn't leave any stone unturned". Of course he's going to say that though cause he knows his spot is safe as any other manager would have dropped him a long time ago.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/stuart-kettlewell-receives-meaningful-motherwell-31614271

Tbf, Kelly's just picking up the script that a long line of Motherwell captains have read off with that.

It's pretty much verbatim the sort of stuff Lasley came out with before the team saw off another manager.

[2426255]

2 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

But if the manager has lost the plot and the players chucked it - as suggested by Tuesday

I think that might be a bit knee-jerk, just that sentence. Your team had a bad result and performance presumably against Ross County, but the previous two games (Celtic, Dundee) don't show that the players have chucked it. I agree with you on expectations. As an outsider I expect Motherwell to be a bottom half team. A good year sees them in the top-6 and a bad year sees them fighting relegation. 

I think it might just as @ropy said your turn for a shit one. You're going to have crap seasons - signings won't work, things won't gel, all teams do.

[JamesP_81]

12 minutes ago, one m in Motherwell said:

This image just sums up Motherwell’s season, doesn’t it?

Davor likes that he is one player closer to getting a game now . 

[Handsome_Devil]

1 minute ago, 2426255 said:

I think that might be a bit knee-jerk, just that sentence. Your team had a bad result and performance presumably against Ross County, but the previous two games (Celtic, Dundee) don't show that the players have chucked it. 

Time (Saturday) will tell but a 3-0 capitulation to a relegation rival is some going.

Hammell was also backed through his long disastrous run because we were competitive but losing until a midweek game against St Johnstone, where tools were suddenly and visibly downed. There was clearly no coming back because the players had decided there was no coming back, although we took another tonking and lost to Raith before we binned him.

I strongly suspect Tuesday was the players beginning to say 'change it' and I also suspect action will be taken if they say it again in Saturday.

[AdamMFC]

4 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

Tbf, Kelly's just picking up the script that a long line of Motherwell captains have read off with that.

It's pretty much verbatim the sort of stuff Lasley came out with before the team saw off another manager.

Yeah that's true. I guess I'm just sick of hearing him speak. I'd rather he not say a word and, as much as it's a cliche, just did his talking on the pitch and helped us win a game.

[2426255]

Just now, Handsome_Devil said:

I strongly suspect Tuesday was the players beginning to say 'change it' and I also suspect action will be taken if they say it again in Saturday.

Well good luck. This discussion actually caught my eye because of this quote I saw on the main forum page:

Quote

The only way you ever get control of these situations is by winning because in this country we are so knee jerk. We don't strip layers back and look at factors like budget, size of squad, injuries.

I thought, what a fair and well balanced view on things which is unusual for a fan, but when I came into the thread I saw it was actually quotes from the manager and the person who posted them was filled with rage over them.  That's Scottish football for you.

49 minutes ago, Swami said:

This quote from the article on the BBC has really wound me up. We’re all aware of these factors, but it may be worth mentioning that the signing of a load of horseshit to play up front and the fact that the defence look like they spend the weeks in between games binging on crystal meth are a bit more of an issue than our injuries. And our budget didn’t pick the team the other night, that was solely on the manager. 

[CoF]

51 minutes ago, AdamMFC said:

"he's a top manager who doesn't leave any stone unturned".

I’m absolutely convinced that’s Kettlewell’s problem. The players don’t need to look at every stone. Pick the most biggest most important stones, turn them, and leave the less important stones unturned.  Just leave them, they’re fine. Don’t get on your hands and knees, studying every pebble, looking at grains of sand through a microscope.
 

I sometimes wonder if it’s a sign of an inexperienced manager when they place so much emphasis on “getting as much information into the players as possible”. Detailed analytics is a skill and it probably feels great being able to tell your centre back that if the air temperature is 9c the opposition striker accelerates at 28km/h but only in the ninth quadrant of the pitch, and only if his first stride is his left foot. But communication is a skill and so is understanding individual learning styles. I think Hammell was similar in that he often spoke as giving players as much information as possible - could be wrong but it felt like there was little regard to how individuals actually receive that information. 

Despite my earlier post, I did actually listen to all 23 minutes of Kettlewell’s press conference (I still find him likeable , especially his hard-headedness) and to my relief I think he has at least acknowledged that he needs to simplify the message (or “change the stimulus” as he puts it…..). 

Edited December 7, 2023 by CoF