Motherwell FC - A Thread For All Seasons

[Handsome John]

56 minutes ago, tonicg said:

Agreed. EPL vibes about it. Those clubs have no soul or community and can only amount to singing people’s names over and over again.  

Was good enough for Dougie back in the day…

[rowsdower]

35 minutes ago, Handsome_Devil said:

Have we found anything to rhyme with Zdravkovski yet?

Nah, but we can anglicize his utterly pronouncable first name instead.

[capt_oats]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Are folk still keen for Kettlewell to be sacked?

It's a moot point really as it's been made relatively clear that the board aren't of a mind to bin him. Which is fair enough as the rate we've been going through managers recently hasn't been ideal and as it stands we're 4 points off 6th (but 3 points off 11th..yikes).

There's a legitimate question over whether his contract is renewed though.

The fact that we haven't been losing games also helps a bit and our draws recently have been far more controlled rather than the out and out chaos of chucking all our forwards on with 15 mins to go. At that point we looked completely out of control we conceded 3 against County twice, 4 against Aberdeen and 3 against Dundee.

You look at our recent form and even though we've only lost 1 (to Rangers) in our last 8 we've still only won 2 (one of which was against Alloa). Since 7th November we've played 13 games (in all competitions) and only lost 3 but again...we've only won 2.

He's in a weird place though.

Teams like St Mirren have actually lost more games than us but it's the draws that have been killing us. Equally if we're not losing games the board are unlikely to be compelled to do anything (they're unlikely to do anything anyway as the CEO is interim and has indicated he's been doing this longer than he intended so will be stepping down imminently while our Chairman will step down at the end of the season - so recruiting a new manager while that is going on seems like a hassle unless we absolutely have to).

What has settled things down a bit is that since the 3-0 against County in Dingwall where he looked done for our relative uptick in form (1 loss in 8 ) has coincided with Kettlewell doing things like playing left sided players on the left and a holding mid in the holding mid role - which he wasn't doing before.

So while it's been clear he's been doing the job with one arm tied behind his back due to outside factors (budgets, injuries etc) he really wasn't helping himself with a lot of the choices he seemed to be making.

As @Quatermass says above I don't think asking if folk are still keen for Kettlewell to be sacked is really the right question.

Edited February 4 by capt_oats

[Busta Nut]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

Are folk still keen for Kettlewell to be sacked?

Other folk have put it better than I could but this is how I feel about it really:

11 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

It's a moot point really as it's been made relatively clear that the board aren't of a mind to bin him.

The chairman/CEO are wanting out. They are in the process of replacing themselves. They aren't wanting any hassle on top of that anyway.

Edited February 4 by Busta Nut

[18May1991]

I’m happy enough to admit I’ve totally changed my mind about Kettlewell. Like (probably) most, I’d have got shot of him after the Ross County debacle. However….

I always quite warmed to his babbling interviews. They’re even better when we’ve not just lost. 

We’ve just had a decent window (another centre forward aside).

He seems pretty good/brutal at getting rid of players that don’t cut it (whether he signed them or not).

We played well yesterday IMO, with a definite recent improvement, just not quite getting the results we deserve.

He gave us The Bair. 

…. what’s not to like?*
 

 

*unless we get beaten by County again, in which case I reserve the right to change my mind. Again. 

[RandomGuy.]

You feel similar to us under Davidson. In that your manager is always just going to have you treading water at the bottom but also seems to drag results out enough that you never actually get relegated.

Key will be not replacing him in the Summer with a Steven MacLean, maybe.

[Allroy for Prez]

He’s not getting sacked so I think anyone who was calling for his head realises it’s a waste of effort doing so. 

However….. 

….if we don’t win the next 2, my patience will be done and he should go, regardless of whether it’s a ball ache for the departing chairman. Losing an absolute out and out 6 pointer at home and being 1 win in 20 (TWENTY) in the league and following it up with a cup exit live on the telly to a championship team, regardless of their form, should be the end of him. 

[RostokMcSpoons]

6 hours ago, Alert Mongoose said:

If you want an opposition view on the list of forwards MFC have had in recent past, Dougie Arnott was the best of them.

I can't remember him ever being particularly prolific, but his ability to pop up with winners against the Old Firm was something that'd make him absolutely priceless to us these days

 

(On a side note, I played with Dougie on one of those original Football Aid charity games at Fir Park, and him playing a pass to me remains one of my best ever football-related moments )

Edited February 4 by RostokMcSpoons

[Handsome_Devil]

17 minutes ago, Allroy for Prez said:

He’s not getting sacked so I think anyone who was calling for his head realises it’s a waste of effort doing so. 

However….. 

….if we don’t win the next 2, my patience will be done and he should go, regardless of whether it’s a ball ache for the departing chairman. Losing an absolute out and out 6 pointer at home and being 1 win in 20 (TWENTY) in the league and following it up with a cup exit live on the telly to a championship team, regardless of their form, should be the end of him. 

I'm not convinced it will be. Agree it certainly should be.

We've got a tougher run of fixtures coming up and everyone said this three game spell was huge. Ending that with two or three points out of nine, followed by an expensive cup upset, should certainly lead to the conclusion it's time up.

But yeah, as said, I think the board will conclude there's still time to salvage it even from there - if it happens - and we'll continue as is.

[Handsome_Devil]

28 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

You feel similar to us under Davidson. In that your manager is always just going to have you treading water at the bottom but also seems to drag results out enough that you never actually get relegated.

Key will be not replacing him in the Summer with a Steven MacLean, maybe.

Thing is, on the basis we've burned through managers at a fair rate and are certainly not guaranteed to appoint a strong successor, I'm not against giving him another go if we stay up...but it clearly depends on winning some bloody games.

He's been basically on the verge of being bulleted, in any normal circumstances, for weeks, and while he's steadied the ship very, very few folk come back from that.

[Swello]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Key will be not replacing him in the Summer with a Steven MacLean, maybe.

Weirdly doing a shift as my postman at the moment. I'm trying to order a lot of heavy stuff to get him back for all the goals against us.

[RandomGuy.]

10 minutes ago, Swello said:

Weirdly doing a shift as my postman at the moment. I'm trying to order a lot of heavy stuff to get him back for all the goals against us.

Did wonder what would come of him. Liam Craig is back with Davidson at Queens Park but MacLean not leaving with them then slating Davidson probably burnt that particular bridge for him.

[YassinMoutaouakil]

20 minutes ago, Swello said:

Weirdly doing a shift as my postman at the moment. I'm trying to order a lot of heavy stuff to get him back for all the goals against us.

Delivery for Thelonius

[boozyBJ]

Have we ever had a manager that his contract just ran out, not sacked or resigned, just ran out? Struggling to remember, Butcher maybe?

[Handsome_Devil]

14 minutes ago, boozyBJ said:

Have we ever had a manager that his contract just ran out, not sacked or resigned, just ran out? Struggling to remember, Butcher maybe?

McGhee first time?

Ah, apparently he signed a three-year deal so nope.

Edited February 4 by Handsome_Devil

[Gianfranco]

1 hour ago, Swello said:

Weirdly doing a shift as my postman at the moment. I'm trying to order a lot of heavy stuff to get him back for all the goals against us.

He always used to do that stand on the wall type celebration the cheeky git. Order some boulders.

[crazylegsjoe_mfc]

8 hours ago, Swello said:

I don't think we should read too much into the fact that a bunch of young boys signed on Thursday night aren't pitched straight into an important game less than 48 hours later (and the team played reasonably well across the St Johnstone and Killie games - so it would have been weird to make wholesale changes..

We've got 3 games in a week, so I would be surprised if we didn't see them at some point this week after they've had some actual training sessions - and it's up to them to dislodge the ones that are getting picked.  Nicholson I would hope would be close to a starter when he is match fit, I still think we'll see Gent and Buyabu playing in the same team - and Miller surely would be back to being a starter at the expense of Halliday.

I agree with all of this.

What I would also say, is that if all the January signings succeed in doing is to get another level of performance out of those already here, then you could still consider it to be be a success.

Even from the perspective of training - I'm sure things will be more intense and competitive than they were when the first XI would've had to line up against 4 strikers, Oxborough and 6 weans.

[Eliphas Pettigrew]

Kettlewell out ? an interesting one as like all managers he has his faults, but looking at the bigger picture, perhaps everything is so short term. Unearth a Van Veen or a Lennon Miller  they show promise or  hit a rich vein of form you lose them ... how do you replace them or build, within that set budget and within that talent pool

Each close season you have to replace 6,7, or 8 players with a 5-6 week window before the league cup starts with the fans expecting the club to be competitive and qualifying from the group but the club trying to backfill and the players in budget not wanting to commit to deals so early in the window, thus almost creating 2 transfer windows - a league cup one and a league one, recruitment needs to be pretty spot on, to build that team to meet the fans expectations of seemingly offering both a competitive & attractive style, giving the ugly sisters a proper game, challenging top 6 and embarking on strong cup runs  ... yet those wrong recruitment choices can lead to carrying deadwood for 1 or 2 years or until maybe at the very least the next transfer window to try and offload and replace

I suppose the managers are just like the players where if its not immediately working lets call for  change, and ultimately its easier to change the manager and try again

To put things into perspective, Its a little staggering to think a 75 year old Neil Warnock entering the Scottish league is viewed as enlightening in some quarters

Edited February 4 by Eliphas Pettigrew

[YassinMoutaouakil]

44 minutes ago, crazylegsjoe_mfc said:

I agree with all of this.

What I would also say, is that if all the January signings succeed in doing is to get another level of performance out of those already here, then you could still consider it to be be a success.

Even from the perspective of training - I'm sure things will be more intense and competitive than they were when the first XI would've had to line up against 4 strikers, Oxborough and 6 weans.

Our training seems intense enough as it is!

[Jim McLean's Ghost]

4 hours ago, boozyBJ said:

Have we ever had a manager that his contract just ran out, not sacked or resigned, just ran out? Struggling to remember, Butcher maybe?

Butcher left at the end of his contract iirc. Tommy McLean left after giving notice but it may have been different in pre-Bosman days

For example in the acrimonious split between Tommy Burns and Kilmarnock they couldn't stop him leaving to become Celtic manager but Celtic got into trouble because he was still registered and under contract as a player.  Killie subsequently stopped him from registering as a player with Celtic. He might not have wanted to register but Killie did not give him the choice.