Gaz Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, gannonball said: So the 5th club in English football is an elite club but the 4th Club in Germany isn’t? Well, the Premier League is a much stronger league than the German one, so... yes? ETA: Even if not "elite", they're still a stronger side. Edited October 6, 2022 by Gaz 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 10 minutes ago, Gaz said: Well, the Premier League is a much stronger league than the German one, so... yes? ETA: Even if not "elite", they're still a stronger side. Well the closest result I could find was Last season where Frankfurt beat West Ham. Frankfurt came 5th to qualify for the Europa and West Ham 6th the season. Whilst the EPL might be slightly stronger I think we can file your views of it being more of a blinded fanboy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 5 minutes ago, gannonball said: Well the closest result I could find was Last season where Frankfurt beat West Ham. Frankfurt came 5th to qualify for the Europa and West Ham 6th the season. Whilst the EPL might be slightly stronger I think we can file your views of it being more of a blinded fanboy. I’m as far from an EPL fanboy as you can get. I couldn’t tell you who’s top week by week, let alone what the weekend’s results are. I just recognise it as a much stronger league, as do UEFA. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 13 minutes ago, Gaz said: I’m as far from an EPL fanboy as you can get. I couldn’t tell you who’s top week by week, let alone what the weekend’s results are. I just recognise it as a much stronger league, as do UEFA. They don’t, Germany even has more clubs competing in this seasons UEFA competitions than England. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) 59 minutes ago, gannonball said: They don’t, Germany even has more clubs competing in this seasons UEFA competitions than England. Germany had a 5 year country coefficient of 75.231 while England had a coefficient of 106.64 England has gained more points in four out of five seasons and the exception was a very close run thing 18.714 vs 18.571 so clearly UEFA recognise the EPL as being stronger https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022 Whether that's sufficiently stronger to justify the use of "much" is a dull question of semantics. I'd say yes but it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on Besides the most convincing argument against the Bundesliga being an elite league is that Rangers eliminated two of their clubs and took another one all the way to penalties. Losing one might look like misfortune but for it to happen again suggests that there is an issue there Edited October 6, 2022 by topcat(The most tip top) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 2 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Germany had a 5 year country coefficient of 75.231 while England had a coefficient of 106.64 England has gained more points in four out of five seasons and the exception was a very close run thing 18.714 vs 18.571 so clearly UEFA recognise the EPL as being stronger https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2022 Whether that's sufficiently stronger to justify the use of "much" is a dull question of semantics. I'd say yes but it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on Besides the most convincing argument against the Bundesliga being an elite league is that Rangers eliminated two of their clubs and took another one all the way to penalties. Losing one might look like misfortune but for it to happen again suggests that there is an issue there Tbf I do believe the EPL is a stronger league I just don’t think its massively better than the Bundesliga or La Liga. It wasn’t yourself Suggesting it but it stemmed from someone saying we will only play one elite club in the champions league group stages yet you play 5 in England just reeks of being suckered in by the EPL marketing. Its been quite enjoyable seeing Halaand destroy teams from the off as some were predicting he would struggle to adapt to EPL initially, as if the bundesliga is full of inferior teams. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 1 hour ago, gannonball said: They don’t Wait what? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 1 minute ago, Gaz said: Wait what? read the rest of the post you have cut out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 11 minutes ago, gannonball said: Tbf I do believe the EPL is a stronger league I just don’t think its massively better than the Bundesliga or La Liga. It wasn’t yourself Suggesting it but it stemmed from someone saying we will only play one elite club in the champions league group stages yet you play 5 in England just reeks of being suckered in by the EPL marketing. Its been quite enjoyable seeing Halaand destroy teams from the off as some were predicting he would struggle to adapt to EPL initially, as if the bundesliga is full of inferior teams. The debate stems from one that I was having with another poster (might have even been yourself) who claimed that staying at Celtic and playing in the Champions League will make someone like McGregor a better player than going to a mid-table English side. Staying at Celtic he'll play two games against Real Madrid (ranked 5th by UEFA), two games against Liepzig (17th) and Shakhtar (25th). Moving to (say) Villa he'd play two games against Man City (1st), two against Liverpool (3rd), two against Chelsea (4th), two against Man Utd (10th), two against Tottenham (18th) and two against Arsenal (23rd), and quite possibly more due to cup games. It's not EPL marketing that determines how strong a club / league is, it's objective co-efficient points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 14 minutes ago, Gaz said: The debate stems from one that I was having with another poster (might have even been yourself) who claimed that staying at Celtic and playing in the Champions League will make someone like McGregor a better player than going to a mid-table English side. We’ll see this is where you (and a few others) went wrong. McGregor was accused of cruising and not having ambition and I was debating that point, which is a fair bit different. Then posts came in about standard of leagues etc which I pointed out several times no one was really debating at all. Now you have bizarrely come on this thread laughing at a debate from a another thread that no one was really having. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 6, 2022 Share Posted October 6, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, gannonball said: Tbf I do believe the EPL is a stronger league I just don’t think its massively better than the Bundesliga or La Liga. It wasn’t yourself Suggesting it but it stemmed from someone saying we will only play one elite club in the champions league group stages yet you play 5 in England just reeks of being suckered in by the EPL marketing. Its been quite enjoyable seeing Halaand destroy teams from the off as some were predicting he would struggle to adapt to EPL initially, as if the bundesliga is full of inferior teams. You could replace an argument about how much stronger constitutes "much" stronger with an argument about just what constitutes an "elite" team. It's not going to improve the thread In terms of players improving through experience I reckon there's actually more value in matches against teams like Leipzig where the opposition are clearly stronger but there's still a genuine contest than getting ripped to bits in a total mismatch like Celtic's last trip to Paris I'm not a top level sports performance coach so that's just a hunch Edited October 6, 2022 by topcat(The most tip top) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Came onto laugh at the coefficient contribution this season from our European saviours and am greeted with an extremely tedious debate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisal Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Right Hearts get a win for the coefficient. This 2 teams in the Champions League thing is fantastic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 Right, genuine question: How pish do we need to be and for how long, in order for us to go back to just having one CL slot, that needs reached via qualifiers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted October 27, 2022 Share Posted October 27, 2022 6 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Right, genuine question: How pish do we need to be and for how long, in order for us to go back to just having one CL slot, that needs reached via qualifiers? Obviously that depends on what other countries do but basically one more season like this might be enough but two more would almost certainly be this season is replacing the similarly dreadful 2017/18 in the five year record so basically Motherwell failing in Dublin replaces St Johnstone failing in Lithuania 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionsof67 Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 8 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Right, genuine question: How pish do we need to be and for how long, in order for us to go back to just having one CL slot, that needs reached via qualifiers? We lose the second CL spot if we fall out the top 15, we lose the automatic group spot if we fall out the top 10. Belgium overtook us tonight, dropping us to 9th. Brugge and Union SG have qualified to the next rounds while Anderlecht and Gent are both third so still have a chance of reaching the next rounds so they will get enough points to keep the 8th spot unless they all suddenly lose every game from here on and the we would go back above them once the points from 5 years ago drop off, but them losing every game isn't happening so 8th place is gone. Austria (2.8 points behind) and Sebia (5.025 points behind) are 10th and 11th so we want all their teams to screw up. Salzburg are 3rd and will qualify unless Zagreb fancy beating Chelsea again, if Salzburg beat Milan they're through no matter what. Sturm Graz are currently second in a really tight group where everyone can still qualify but i think theyll get through since Lazio and Feyenoord have been so disappointing. Red Star are bottom of their group so lets hope they stay there and Partizan are second in their and likely to go through, alone they cant get enough points to trouble us. If Austria can overtake us then we lose the group stage spot the season after next but we wont lose the 2 CL qualifying spots this season. This is assuming everything still works the same way but since results from this dont come into effect till the season after next its that new format change so may be different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 6 hours ago, Lionsof67 said: We lose the second CL spot if we fall out the top 15, we lose the automatic group spot if we fall out the top 10. Belgium overtook us tonight, dropping us to 9th. Brugge and Union SG have qualified to the next rounds while Anderlecht and Gent are both third so still have a chance of reaching the next rounds so they will get enough points to keep the 8th spot unless they all suddenly lose every game from here on and the we would go back above them once the points from 5 years ago drop off, but them losing every game isn't happening so 8th place is gone. Austria (2.8 points behind) and Sebia (5.025 points behind) are 10th and 11th so we want all their teams to screw up. Salzburg are 3rd and will qualify unless Zagreb fancy beating Chelsea again, if Salzburg beat Milan they're through no matter what. Sturm Graz are currently second in a really tight group where everyone can still qualify but i think theyll get through since Lazio and Feyenoord have been so disappointing. Red Star are bottom of their group so lets hope they stay there and Partizan are second in their and likely to go through, alone they cant get enough points to trouble us. If Austria can overtake us then we lose the group stage spot the season after next but we wont lose the 2 CL qualifying spots this season. This is assuming everything still works the same way but since results from this dont come into effect till the season after next its that new format change so may be different. Thank you. Fabulously comprehensive. I can't join in with the "we want" and the "let's hope" parts, but I'm grateful for the response. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 28, 2022 Share Posted October 28, 2022 9 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said: Obviously that depends on what other countries do but basically one more season like this might be enough but two more would almost certainly be Thanks. Fingers crossed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lionsof67 Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 18 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Thank you. Fabulously comprehensive. I can't join in with the "we want" and the "let's hope" parts, but I'm grateful for the response. your team qualified for europe thanks to a scottish cup final appearance, if you were to replicate that this season you'd be guaranteed European group stage football next season just like Hearts this year, so its very much "we", keeping that top 10 spot is beneficial to every club in scotland who dream of a european run. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted October 29, 2022 Share Posted October 29, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Lionsof67 said: your team qualified for europe thanks to a scottish cup final appearance, if you were to replicate that this season you'd be guaranteed European group stage football next season just like Hearts this year, so its very much "we", keeping that top 10 spot is beneficial to every club in scotland who dream of a european run. I'm well aware of the circumstances of how we once qualified for Europe. I've referred to it often before, when others have as if playing some trump card. The biggest problem with our game is the vast disparity in resources between the top two and the rest. CL qualification hugely exacerbates that. Only a fool, or someone who actively wants their football to be unjust, could welcome that. Edited October 29, 2022 by Monkey Tennis 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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