HibeeJibee Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 Erdogan is a pretty unpleasant chap... but by the same token sending tanks and helicopter gunships into the streets to overthrow the government isn't exactly an ideal form of political change. Especially if other parts of the army the police or the government's supporters start to fight back. Though I suppose the idea is that you gun a few of them down and hope the rest go away home... One of the paradoxes is that despite the Erdogan regime, its political oppression, the snowballing terror attacks, the refugee crisis, Islamic State territory over the border etc, you have still had people in Europe wanting to accelerate the idea of them joining institutions. Even in sport they've almost won recent and upcoming Euros and Olympics - despite the concerns and instability they only missed-out on Euro 2016 by 1 vote and finished 2nd in the 2020 Olympics vote.
RandomGuy. Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 7 minutes ago, dorlomin said: Rumours that Erdogan is fleeing to Germany. Just a rumour. Hes just claimed he'll show up in a square in Ankara, sounds like bollocks
Hillonearth Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, King Dom's Moustache said: This is mental. Imagine police Scotland trying to shut the forth road bridge It'd probably be shut anyway.
vikingTON Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 10 minutes ago, Aladdin said: Exactly. Erdogan has tacitly supported ISIS in Syria and allowed hardliners more and more leeway within Turkey. I imagine this will be slightly different to the Egyptian coup where a majority will be glad to see him go. I wouldn't be so sure about popular opinion: there'd certainly be little love lost for him in Istanbul, where public protests nearly brought down his government before. He didn't win an election by fraud though and the huge tracts of rural Turkey are - in a moderate form - Islamist in their politics. The secular state and city versus the religious countryside has always been a source of major tension in Turkey, When a coup happens the opinions that matter are ultimately i) the military and ii) any political factions concentrated area, such as a city. Pro-Erdogan bumpkins scattered around the countryside have a democratic vote but won't matter this evening. He has been an absolute disaster that the world would be better of seeing out of power. Let's not forget his shooting down of a Russian jet, provoking an awkward NATO climbdown from defending their member state, because the Russians had the temerity to do something about the festering mess Turkey is happy to leave on its south-eastern frontiers.
Dindeleux Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 It was apparently sparked by a referendum agreeing to move Christmas Day to 12 December. Turkeys voting for Christmas.
HibeeJibee Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 8 minutes ago, King Dom's Moustache said: This is mental. Imagine police Scotland trying to shut the forth road bridge Tbf, a broken sprocket achieved that, nevermind Chief Inspector Miekelson from Scotsquad or indeed Gary Tank Commander. PC Plum from Balamory, however...
dorlomin Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 The source for Erdogan's plane is credible but far from solid.
Granny Danger Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 We should launch a couple of Trident missiles at them. I don't think it would help much but it seems ridiculous to spend all that money and never get the chance to use them.
Bully Wee Villa Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 So... are the military the goodies or the baddies?
dorlomin Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 APK saying this is Gulenist rather than Kemalist. Quote The Gülen movement is a transnational religious and social movement led by Turkish Islamic scholar and preacher Fethullah Gülen. The movement has no official name but it is usually referred to as Hizmet ("the Service") by its followers and as Cemaat ("the Community/Assembly") by the broader public in Turkey. The movement has attracted supporters and critics in Turkey, Central Asia, and in other parts of the world. The movement is active in education with private schools and universities in over 180 countries as well as many American charter schools operated by followers. It has initiated forums for interfaith dialogue. It has substantial investments in media, finance, and for–profit health clinics.[1][2] Some have praised the movement as a pacifist, modern-oriented version of Islam, and as an alternative to more extreme schools of Islam such as Salafism.[3] After the 2013 corruption investigations in Turkey into alleged corrupt practices by several bureaucrats, ministers, mayors, and family members of the ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) of Turkey was uncovered,[4][5] President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan blamed the Movement for initiating[6] the investigations as a result of a break in previously friendly relations.[7] The group was considered to have influence on the Turkish police force and the judiciary. The movement, currently accused of attempting to overthrow the democratically elected Turkish government through a judicial coup through corruption investigations. The government determined the movement as a national security threat for Turkey and seized the group owned newspaper (Zaman-the most circulated newspaper in Turkey before the seizure.[8] and several companies that has ties with the group. Investigations into the group are continuing with several accusations.[9] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gülen_movement But they do have an agenda here.
vikingTON Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 6 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said: Erdogan is a pretty unpleasant chap... but by the same token sending tanks and helicopter gunships into the streets to overthrow the government isn't exactly an ideal form of political change. Especially if other parts of the army the police or the government's supporters start to fight back. Though I suppose the idea is that you gun a few of them down and hope the rest go away home... One of the paradoxes is that despite the Erdogan regime, its political oppression, the snowballing terror attacks, the refugee crisis, Islamic State territory over the border etc, you have still had people in Europe wanting to accelerate the idea of them joining institutions. Even in sport they've almost won recent and upcoming Euros and Olympics - despite the concerns and instability they only missed-out on Euro 2016 by 1 vote and finished 2nd in the 2020 Olympics vote. lol wut There has been no 'acceleration' of Turkey entering any credible European institutions. Erdogan held out for visa-free travel in exchange for his co-operation in stemming the flow of migrants. That's it. Turkey joining the EU is dead in the water, on both sides of the bargaining table. Whether Turkey gets to host a sporting tournament has absolutely nothing to do with its actual political status - otherwise Qatar would be something other than just a rich bin in the middle of the Gulf States.
vikingTON Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 2 minutes ago, Bully Di Villa said: So... are the military the goodies or the baddies? Can't say for sure, but Erdogan is the Neil Doncaster of Middle Eastern politics so I'm rooting for 'anyone but him'.
dorlomin Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 Periscope from Ankara, but not much happening.... https://www.periscope.tv/redblll06/1ynJOzQAZEOGR
Dunning1874 Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 1 minute ago, vikingTON said: He has been an absolute disaster that the world would be better of seeing out of power. Let's not forget his shooting down of a Russian jet, provoking an awkward NATO climbdown from defending their member state, because the Russians had the temerity to do something about the festering mess Turkey is happy to leave on its south-eastern frontiers. Indeed. Very interested to see the Russian response when more details become clear and we get foreign governments issuing comments beyond 'hope it's all done without bloodshed, stay indoors'. Wouldn't be surprised if it essentially amounts to 'good fucking riddance'. John Kerry's in Moscow just now as well, could make for a hilarious press conference if him and Lavrov are taking massively different lines on it. Though the US will probably be delighted to see the back of him too.
dorlomin Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 Helicopter gunships have opened fire according to one news source
Dunning1874 Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 1 minute ago, dorlomin said: Helicopter gunships have opened fire. On the Presidential Palace, apparently.
Emiliano ZaBankie Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 It was apparently sparked by a referendum agreeing to move Christmas Day to 12 December. No doubt to smooth their entry to the EU? WHEN WILL BRUSSELS LEARN? [emoji35][emoji35][emoji35]
The Ginger Prince Posted July 15, 2016 Posted July 15, 2016 Gunshots fired on one of the bridges now.
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