Crùbag Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 24 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: So you want the duplicitous Westminster to stop sending the block grant to Scotland? I support real independence, outside the EU as well as the UK. Scotland will have to negotiate its own independence deal with the British government. Such divisive rhetoric will only infuriate the Unionist parties and reduce our chances of getting the best deal. Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjw Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 ^^^^^ Rattled You'll know when he's really rattled.He'll post a weird as f**k picture and disappear for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Crùbag said: Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's. It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election. See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman. The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. Edited January 18, 2017 by Bishop Briggs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 13 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election. See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman. The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU. But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first. Then Scotland can hold its own debate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU. But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first. Then Scotland can hold its own debate. Yes, the priority is that Scotland extricate itself from the more immediate Union. The debate on Europe can follow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Bishop Briggs said: So you want the duplicitous Westminster to stop sending the block grant to Scotland? I support real independence, outside the EU as well as the UK. Scotland will have to negotiate its own independence deal with the British government. Such divisive rhetoric will only infuriate the Unionist parties and reduce our chances of getting the best deal. 1 hour ago, Crùbag said: Fair position to have, though not mine. However, we should be able to debate the EU, and vote on it if desire is there, on our own merits. Not Farage's. decent post 2 minutes ago, git-intae-thum said: There is an argument to be made for a Scotland independent of the UK and EU. But in order to have that discussion, we must have independence from the UK first. Then Scotland can hold its own debate. We all have our wish-list post independence. Surely it's one step at a time? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 7 minutes ago, Consolidate said: Yes, the priority is that Scotland extricate itself from the more immediate Union. The debate on Europe can follow. My point exactly 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 1 minute ago, Wee Willie said: We all have our wish-list post independence. Surely it's one step at a time? This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step. Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Willie Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, Ross. said: This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step. Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU. I agree. I think we should all strive for independence then come back on here and argue the toss as to which way we go 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Bishop Briggs said: It's the same position as 36% of voters who voted SNP in the 2015 General Election. See page 7 in the massive poll for Lord Ashcroft - http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf. The Scottish sample size was similar to a normal opinion poll in the Herald or Scotsman. The SNP is ignoring or dismissing the wishes of 2 in 5 of its voters! Are they must be racist Little Englanders too? In reality, they want real independence and self-government too. Aye, sure. It doesn't negate the need for us to debate the EU on our own terms after independence. Though, while there is a significant body within the Yes-vote for Indy outside of the EU, Indy within EU is still the most popular option. It will also win over many thousands of EU citizens to our cause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 14 minutes ago, Crùbag said: Aye, sure. It doesn't negate the need for us to debate the EU on our own terms after independence. Though, while there is a significant body within the Yes-vote for Indy outside of the EU, Indy within EU is still the most popular option. It will also win over many thousands of EU citizens to our cause. That's a surprise Those percentages are only 2% off from what they'd be if there was no correlation whatsoever 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Hsbc on the move http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Hsbc on the move http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss 20% of HSBC on the move. Perhaps 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 6 minutes ago, doulikefish said: Hsbc on the move http://martini.heraldscotland.com/business/15031342.HSBC_set_to_shift_1_000_jobs_to_Paris_over_UK_departure_from_single_market/?ref=rss Wouldn't be a massive surprise. I know CITI have moved staff from London to Dublin in the last few months also. Not sure if Brexit had much to do with that but it is something that would likely have figured at least a little. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Briggs Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 2 hours ago, Ross. said: This is pretty much my thinking on it. Independence from the UK is the first, and for me most important step. Posted on here before that I would see Scotland better off out of both unions, but I feel that the EU offers more protection for Scotlands needs than the UK will. For me the worst case scenario for Scotland is in the UK and out of the EU. That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 5 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. If Scotland votes to exit the UK within the Brexit time table, I think the EU would likely do what it can to fudge some form of continuity agreement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 21 hours ago, Mark Connolly said: One of the biggest issues for Indyref 2 would be the voter apathy - how many referendums, elections or others have the Scottish voting public had to show up for in the last 5 years? The big swing factor will be the attitude of the non Scots. In the UK referendum, non UK citizens were not able to vote. In the Scottish referendum they were. Surely the vast majority voted No in the Scottish referendum to preserve EU guarantees. Even if May guaranteed them the right to stay now, they wouldn't necessarily trust that commitment in the longer term - not when you know that EU membership is pretty much a given for an independent Scotland. Much of the indigenous No vote will stay as they are - the over 60s who fear everything and those with a disproportionate allegiance to the Queen on account of their football team and an enjoyment of marching. And of course those who really, really want out of the EU anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crùbag Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 23 minutes ago, Bishop Briggs said: That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. Do you know that for sure? We're already members and the anger within the EU over Brexit is obvious. If we gained independence before Brexit - which could take years - then it's likely the EU would welcome us. Though, as you've said before, surely you'd be happy with this situation - independence outwith the EU? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 That's not a practical option. If Scotland leaves the UK first, i.e. within the two year Brexit timetable, it will need to apply for EU membership as a new Member. There are immediate hurdles to clear - the budget deficit and the currency issue for a start. This constant reference to the budget deficit being a problem has me asking,has anyone given a figure what the actual deficit would be? Once the historical debts and the UK's assets have been divied up, what is the figure? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Boris being Boris again http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38658998 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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