Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[ICTJohnboy]

3 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yes but ask yourself this, why they need to march when they are getting everything they want? The UK is a hard right nut jobs wet dream right now, so they don’t have to march.
Stop brexit and they’ll have something to complain and collectively gammon (intended as a verb) about.

 

They're not getting everything they want - they're going to be moaning like f**k over the fudged, compromised deal that May is going to finish up with. That will be enough to see quite a few shop windows smashed, cars set on fire etc.

Probably why my car insurance renewal premium has just gone sky high now I come to think about it.

[Granny Danger]

7 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I genuinely believe there would be absolute riots of hard right EDL Yaxley Lennon crayon eaters all over England if Brexit was cancelled. I also believe there would be targeted fatalities.

You can believe that, it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.

If there were violent demonstrations they would be quickly subdued and if a few EDL types or Gammons got hurt it would be their own fault for resorting to violence.

There have been many massive non violent anti Brexit demos so we should not avoid a course of action for the fear of violence from the other side.

 

Edited November 5, 2018 by Granny Danger

[Mark Connolly]

I may be a bit simple, but I really don't get the " Another referendum is undemocratic" rhetoric.

Surely there is nothing more democratic than the politicians realising something is a complete clusterfuck and allowing the electorate to reassess their options?

[Fullerene]

33 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

I may be a bit simple, but I really don't get the " Another referendum is undemocratic" rhetoric.

Surely there is nothing more democratic than the politicians realising something is a complete clusterfuck and allowing the electorate to reassess their options?

.. and especially when this is being said by politicians who would have insisted on another referendum if the 2016 result had gone the other way. 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

You can believe that, it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
If there were violent demonstrations they would be quickly subdued and if a few EDL types or Gammons got hurt it would be their own fault for resorting to violence.
There have been many massive non violent anti Brexit demos so we should not avoid a course of action for the fear of violence from the other side.
 

Im sorry if i give the impression its something that id have an issue with, i’m all for cancelling brexit, but there will be disorder, on a large scale, i’m fine with that because I have faith that they wont have the wider support for it to go nationwide.

[banana]

Totalitarian elitist reptile Lord Adonis gets REKT by man of the people Peter Hitchens.

 

[Granny Danger]

2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

I may be a bit simple, but I really don't get the " Another referendum is undemocratic" rhetoric.

Surely there is nothing more democratic than the politicians realising something is a complete clusterfuck and allowing the electorate to reassess their options?

The only thing the Tories are worried about is getting cruxified by their own voters.  It was appeassment that got us into this mess and it is appeasment that is stopping any rational thought on the way forward.

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im sorry if i give the impression its something that id have an issue with, i’m all for cancelling brexit, but there will be disorder, on a large scale, i’m fine with that because I have faith that they wont have the wider support for it to go nationwide.

I agree.  Any disorder would be small scale, localised and easily quashed.  Hopefully there would be 1 milion plus fatal heart attacks amongst the Gammons.

Back into the EU and pressure lifted on the NHS.  Win, win.

 

[Detournement]

3 hours ago, Mark Connolly said:

I may be a bit simple, but I really don't get the " Another referendum is undemocratic" rhetoric.

Surely there is nothing more democratic than the politicians realising something is a complete clusterfuck and allowing the electorate to reassess their options?

Imagine this.

52% of Scots vote for independence in Indyref2. The UK government responds by refusing to negotiate any change in the status quo. The BBC and media run daily negative stories on every bulletin about independence for two years. Would anyone on here be calling for a second referendum?

[Granny Danger]

Conflicting reports in the media.  Some sources saying the latest wheeze (which would still need Parliamentary approval) would see the whole of the U.K. staying in a Customs Union for a defined period. 

Other reports saying this would not be acceptable to the EU as it still includes a time limited backstop for NI.

 

[banana]

27 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Imagine this.

52% of Scots vote for independence in Indyref2. The UK government responds by refusing to negotiate any change in the status quo. The BBC and media run daily negative stories on every bulletin about independence for two years. Would anyone on here be calling for a second referendum?

Expecting consistency and fair play from frothy members of a tribe over politicised tribal issues? 

[Salvo Montalbano]

Conflicting reports in the media.  Some sources saying the latest wheeze (which would still need Parliamentary approval) would see the whole of the U.K. staying in a Customs Union for a defined period. 
Other reports saying this would not be acceptable to the EU as it still includes a time limited backstop for NI.
 

The EU have consistently said this, it is utterly shambolic that the UK government either can't or won't come up with a different solution given how often the EU have said they won't accept a time limited backstop.

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Imagine this.

52% of Scots vote for independence in Indyref2. The UK government responds by refusing to negotiate any change in the status quo. The BBC and media run daily negative stories on every bulletin about independence for two years. Would anyone on here be calling for a second referendum?

So the same as they have since before Indy ref 1?

[Bairnardo]

Imagine this.
52% of Scots vote for independence in Indyref2. The UK government responds by refusing to negotiate any change in the status quo. The BBC and media run daily negative stories on every bulletin about independence for two years. Would anyone on here be calling for a second referendum?

Well yes, 48% probably would.

[Detournement]

16 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

So the same as they have since before Indy ref 1?

Brexit has dominated the media far more than independence did other than the 8 weeks leading up. Funnily Yes seemed to hit a wall when the MSM got into gear.

We've had two years of hardcore project fear - food riots, no medicine, no holidays - without any balancing critique of the EU. We can't just accept that if elites decide change is impossible to accept their verdict. A functioning relationship with the EU is achievable but it might have to be built from the ashes of a No Deal.

[Mark Connolly]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Brexit has dominated the media far more than independence did other than the 8 weeks leading up. Funnily Yes seemed to hit a wall when the MSM got into gear.

We've had two years of hardcore project fear - food riots, no medicine, no holidays - without any balancing critique of the EU. We can't just accept that if elites decide change is impossible to accept their verdict. A functioning relationship with the EU is achievable but it might have to be built from the ashes of a No Deal.

So it was alright for "elites" like Johnson, Gove and Reese-Mogg to utterly f**k the country to suit their own agenda, but it's not ok for a majority in Parliament to decide the electorate may have to make another decision?

Fair enough.

[Bairnardo]

So it was alright for "elites" like Johnson, Gove and Reese-Mogg to utterly f**k the country to suit their own agenda, but it's not ok for a majority in Parliament to decide the electorate may have to make another decision?
Fair enough.

Lol.

Thats the very crux of it. Despite the seething mess of certain elements of the media and self serving politicians like those you mention, no one is talking about overturning the will of the people. All anyone is talking about is checking with the people. An actual vote has somehow become undemocratic, despite a procession of lies and rule breaches of the Leave campaign being uncovered, its undemocratic to go back and ask the question (with actual, real details about what leaving entails this time).

Problem is, probably the quietest demographic in this are leavers who have changed their mind. How many of them there are is crucial to this, and its why the leave side are so vehement in their assertion that we should "get on with it".

Not every referendum it would be appropriate to have a second vote of course, but given the complete and utter lack of understanding of what the EU is/do even before the first one, coupled with the fact that not only could politicians not explain then how it would all work, but they cant even fucking explain NOW how it will work, I really cant see a single arguement for not checking with the British people that what has been delivered is what they want.

Only a fucking idiot, or someone who stands to make a lot of money would argue that the voter had even a small % of the knowledge needed to make a rational and well founded decision.

[Detournement]

22 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

So it was alright for "elites" like Johnson, Gove and Reese-Mogg to utterly f**k the country to suit their own agenda, but it's not ok for a majority in Parliament to decide the electorate may have to make another decision?

Fair enough.

It's clear that the vast majority of the UK elite favour Remain. 

There's no majority in Parliament for a second vote but if there was then it would happen.

[Bairnardo]

It's clear that the vast majority of the UK elite favour Remain. 
There's no majority in Parliament for a second vote but if there was then it would happen.

See folk that talk about this mystery "elite", they are almost exclusively parroting bullshit spouted by the likes of Trump and his supporters.

If you think Farage, Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything other than "elite" then f**k knows what to tell you.

Try to lay off the substanceless buzzwords though. It just makes you look fucking ridiculous.

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Detournement said:

It's clear that the vast majority of the UK elite favour Remain. 

There's no majority in Parliament for a second vote but if there was then it would happen.

The vast majority of Labour party members favour remain, and the party elite is ignoring them.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Those who oppose a second EU referendum miss the point - the first was only ever advisory - a second one would need to be binding.