welshbairn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 If Trump had any support for it he would have invaded Venezuela, he was actively pitching the idea to neighbouring countries. All that oil. Seems he thought it would be as easy as Panama and Grenada, like that Woody Allen film Bananas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, harry94 said: George Bush is an insanely clever guy. Why did he invade Iraq then? I always blamed that on greedy c***s like Cheney and lunatics like Perle and Wolfowitz, with Dubya doing what he was told. Even his Dad warned him against it, knowing a civil war would be inevitable. That's why he pulled out so quickly after Kuwait. Edited June 4, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: Why did he invade Iraq then? I always blamed that on greedy c***s like Cheney and lunatics like Perle and Wolfowitz, with Dubya doing what he was told. The overall riding goal has always been imperialism. You don't wait for events to unfold, you assert your own influence as early as possible. It's not an uncommon viewpoint, it's something that you'd say is typical for every living US President and a strategy that you could at least try to produce an ethical defence from. Bush just happened to be born into the Republican Party. The likes of Cheney, Perle and Wolfowitz were heavily embedded into the fabric of the party and served under his father and Reagan in plenty of prior shady shit. It was basically a deal, you make me president and you get to manage all the foreign policy shit to advance our strategic interests - a loose agreement of basic concepts. Iraq wasn't really a change of direction, it was just the same shitty people who had influence for decades getting a new lease of life with the 'war on terror'. I think he probably feels he made wrong decisions and he was certainly prone to blunders (as every US president has been) but he got what he really wanted IMO. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Just now, harry94 said: The overall riding goal has always been imperialism. You don't wait for events to unfold, you assert your own influence as early as possible. It's not an uncommon viewpoint, it's something that you'd say is typical for every living US President and a strategy that you could at least try to produce an ethical defence from. Bush just happened to be born into the Republican Party. The likes of Cheney, Perle and Wolfowitz were heavily embedded into the fabric of the party and served under his father and Reagan in plenty of prior shady shit. It was basically a deal, you make me president and you get to manage all the foreign policy shit to advance our strategic interests - a loose agreement of basic concepts. Iraq wasn't really a change of direction, it was just the same shitty people who had influence for decades getting a new lease of life with the 'war on terror'. I think he probably feels he made wrong decisions and he was certainly prone to blunders (as every US president has been) but he got what he really wanted IMO. The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever". Insane maybe, but certainly not clever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 US Ambassador's house turning into Brexit central. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sureiknow Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 5 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: Is our already discredited government seriously considering setting up trade agreements with Trump's America? https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/usa-oxfam-report-finds-poultry-workers-forced-to-wear-nappies-as-they-are-denied-adequate-toilet-breaks-suffer-danger-to-health Tell them to GTF. I blame Obama. Well he was President when Oxfam reported that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I thought it's only purpose was to give military fetishists and TA fantasists on social media an excuse to post loads of OURBRAVEBOYS pish.You mean Marc François? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The guy is as thick as pigshit. That is why he has not submitted himself to one serious media interview or engaged in one genuine political debate. He knows nothing about foreign policy, domestic policy, the economy, defence, environmental issues, the legal system, etc, etc, etc. The ignoramus who became President. My first question wouldn't be political but asking him why, despite his billions, he has a shit awful wig. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 2 hours ago, Jacksgranda said: I was swithering whether to hang our washing out or not, it was quite pleasant here this morning at 9.30, and decided to stick it in the drier, so couldn't give a monkeys whether it's Trump's fault for the rain or not. Very selfish granda, I'm hoping my washing will be dry for the weekend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The Iraq war was disaster on every level, and predicted by anyone with the slightest knowledge of the area. They were totally played by Iran who fed the dodgy "intelligence" through Chalabi and ended up in de facto control. $2.4 trillion to hand over power and influence to your biggest regional foe (too thick to realise it's actually Saudi Arabia). That doesn't strike me as "insanely clever".It's not a disaster in their mindset though, it's worked out exactly as they intended.They knew the intelligence was dodgy, they were pretty much making it up as they went on and taking the piss out of it. Saudi have oil, huge influence over the middle east and a geostrategic location - that's it. A few dozen terrorists being financed by the 16th cousin of the ruler doesn't really matter for them.60% of the world's oil reserves in one place - the vast majority of the region unexplored. That oil breeds power projection and arms whoever is in possession of it. Look at where the profits were funneling their way before, a nationalised company feeding funds to the treasury. Unless they can get the state onside diplomatically, it's just never going to be in American's interests to continue that.It's unethical and takes no consideration of civilian life but it doesn't really matter in that sort of mindset, it's always justified by being the true good guys and the collateral damage being worth it in comparison to all the unquantifiable savings you'd make.It's not really a question of intelligence at all, it's the whole mindset big powers have and it can't be turned off. Bush basically did a deal with that and got to be president by playing up to that lobby. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, harry94 said: A few dozen terrorists being financed by the 16th cousin of the ruler doesn't really matter for them. A bit more than that, funding Wahhabi/Salafist madrassas and mosques around the world, staffed by jihadi clerics. Edited June 4, 2019 by welshbairn -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philyerboots Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Have they wheeled out Phil yet? Two men who are guaranteed at any time to say the least appropriate thing, would be a good watch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Why are we celebrating the 75th anniversary of D-Day a day early - what have I missed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 36 minutes ago, Jambomo said: Have they wheeled out Phil yet? Two men who are guaranteed at any time to say the least appropriate thing, would be a good watch. He posted right above you 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunfermline Don Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 Why are we celebrating the 75th anniversary of D-Day a day early - what have I missed? Was it not supposed to be today but got delayed by the weather? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 22 hours ago, welshbairn said: If Trump had any support for it he would have invaded Venezuela, he was actively pitching the idea to neighbouring countries. All that oil. Seems he thought it would be as easy as Panama and Grenada, like that Woody Allen film Bananas. Venezuela is probably a red line for the Russians. One wrong move there and they'd have released photos of the president peeing on some lassie or other. That would somewhat damage the reputation of the office of President. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Sanchez Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 For a 'billionaire' you'd think the scruffy c**t could afford to get a suit that fits: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted June 5, 2019 Share Posted June 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Miguel Sanchez said: For a 'billionaire' you'd think the scruffy c**t could afford to get a suit that fits: Clever how it hides what a lardarse he is though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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