Penalty new rule??

[NewBallsPlease]

The ref in question has a Scottish cup tie in the next round. 

Sunday Scottish?

[energyzone]

That's probably true aye, but the players aren't getting paid £40 for the match. Refs make mistakes and that's part and parcel of football. But there's making mistakes then making up rules where you disallow a goal which in turn ruins a game.

There's a difference between making up a rule and misinterpreting one. When you see the number of things that can be acted upon at a penalty and the possible consequences then it was only a matter of time before someone got it wrong.

[TNW]

8 hours ago, Harvey said:

The ref in question has a Scottish cup tie in the next round. 

I was told the day by a ref in that league yer man is in charge of the refs and gies himself the big games. So not a shock he is on scottish next week!!

Refs make mistakes its a tough tough job that i couldnae dae. But most of these bangers are standing on half way line giving decisions and getting 40 quid for the pleasure. See if you dont know a MAJOR rule such as penalty retakes you shouldnt be near a fitba park. It wastnae a wee silly rule..it was a big important one that can impact a league title!

[NewBallsPlease]

This is a good example of some of the decisions that can be difficult for referees. There are dozens of sections of laws within the game that can cause confusion.

I know nothing about the individual involved but generally speaking leagues don't do enough 'vetting ' referees. The vast majority of leagues won't even know if referees have paid their annual fees.

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, TNW said:

I was told the day by a ref in that league yer man is in charge of the refs and gies himself the big games. So not a shock he is on scottish next week!!

Refs make mistakes its a tough tough job that i couldnae dae. But most of these bangers are standing on half way line giving decisions and getting 40 quid for the pleasure. See if you dont know a MAJOR rule such as penalty retakes you shouldnt be near a fitba park. It wastnae a wee silly rule..it was a big important one that can impact a league title!

There's a few good refs out there m8.The Scottish should be watching them before they get a game this far in Scottish. A mistake like that could cost a team. After doing so well getting this far. 

[NewBallsPlease]

I agree with Harvey. I'd like to know how often a team reports on good performances from a referee. Nobody is slow to let you know if a ref has been stinking, it's a weekly occurrence if you look through some social media accounts but seldom do you see a good referee mentioned.

There's some exceptions, particularly with referees that go fishing for compliments themselves on Twitter.

[sctv]

What's failed to have been mentioned is the guy went into the changing room , put his hands up and apologized. He made a mistake what more can he do after it's happened, make another one to even it up?

Give the guy a break

He does help out with getting the league refs, something we were struggling with this year, indeed a number of games got called off due to not enough refs.
He very rarely does premier games and generally only steps in when someone calls off, unfortunately happening a bit too often just now.

Don't think he's doing Sunday trophy games either.

The guy fkd up, he then had the balls to go into a changing room full of (rightly) angry guys and put his hands up, give him a bit of credit for that.

[Harvey]

3 minutes ago, sctv said:

What's failed to have been mentioned is the guy went into the changing room , put his hands up and apologized. He made a mistake what more can he do after it's happened, make another one to even it up?

Give the guy a break

He does help out with getting the league refs, something we were struggling with this year, indeed a number of games got called off due to not enough refs.
He very rarely does premier games and generally only steps in when someone calls off, unfortunately happening a bit too often just now.

Don't think he's doing Sunday trophy games either.

The guy fkd up, he then had the balls to go into a changing room full of (rightly) angry guys and put his hands up, give him a bit of credit for that.

Well done on the ref for having the balls to go in and apologies.i have watched a few refs over the years making a mess off the game. I've also seen players making a mess off the game. So it evens itself out over the season. I wouldn't do it for  a £1000 a game. 

[Disco30]

Agree to an extent with what yous are saying about the ref holding his hands up which was a brave thing to do. But to not know the rules regarding a major decision that changes games is crazy. Whether he only covers games sometimes or not. Personally never heard of what this ref done in my time in the ammys. Hopefully he learns from the mistake and avoids any controversy again , as Harvey pointed out couldn't pay me enough to be a ref it's a tough job.

[NewBallsPlease]

Just to put this in a little bit of perspective. The junior player sent off recently for pissing has had his red card reduced to a yellow on appeal.

This was a referee, clearly on the rise or he wouldn't be doing a junior game, that didn't know that he was acting out with the laws of the game with the sanction. He will be required to attend SFA meetings and training sessions but still couldn't get the decision correct.

The amateur referee within this thread will have no such obligation.

[pleslie99]

Just to put this in a little bit of perspective. The junior player sent off recently for pissing has had his red card reduced to a yellow on appeal.

This was a referee, clearly on the rise or he wouldn't be doing a junior game, that didn't know that he was acting out with the laws of the game with the sanction. He will be required to attend SFA meetings and training sessions but still couldn't get the decision correct.

The amateur referee within this thread will have no such obligation.

Amateur referees are still advised/encouraged to attend monthly meetings/training sessions. If they fail to do so then they will not referee any higher than amateur level. The referee in question will likely have attended these meetings being that he is the referee coordinator for the league. Also rules such as pissing behind a goal as in the case in the juniors are not brought up at training sessions and as far as I can see the referee was not acting out with the laws of the game, there is no such law so he interpreted it as he saw fit.

[TNW]

53 minutes ago, NewBallsPlease said:

Just to put this in a little bit of perspective. The junior player sent off recently for pissing has had his red card reduced to a yellow on appeal.

This was a referee, clearly on the rise or he wouldn't be doing a junior game, that didn't know that he was acting out with the laws of the game with the sanction. He will be required to attend SFA meetings and training sessions but still couldn't get the decision correct.

The amateur referee within this thread will have no such obligation.

The chap in question is a junior referee im told. Not sure if true or no

[TNW]

18 hours ago, NewBallsPlease said:

I agree with Harvey. I'd like to know how often a team reports on good performances from a referee. Nobody is slow to let you know if a ref has been stinking, it's a weekly occurrence if you look through some social media accounts but seldom do you see a good referee mentioned.

There's some exceptions, particularly with referees that go fishing for compliments themselves on Twitter.

Aye bingo!! Ha.. Nothing worse than a banger of a ref on twitter sayin lovely to meet you old chaps (how did i do the day wiz i superb!!!???)

[NewBallsPlease]

Amateur referees are still advised/encouraged to attend monthly meetings/training sessions. If they fail to do so then they will not referee any higher than amateur level. The referee in question will likely have attended these meetings being that he is the referee coordinator for the league. Also rules such as pissing behind a goal as in the case in the juniors are not brought up at training sessions and as far as I can see the referee was not acting out with the laws of the game, there is no such law so he interpreted it as he saw fit.

That's what I said regarding meetings mate. The referee in the junior game MUST attend meetings, the amateur one MAY attend.

There is no need for the pissing behind the goal to be raised at training or meetings as far as knowing how to deal with it is concerned. Does it fit any of the 6 criteria which must be met for a red card? My guess is that it's been reported as an 'offensive gesture'. I'm not sure it fits.

It's simply not the case that a referee can do as he/she 'sees fit' if there is 'no law'. They are there to ensure the laws, as they are, are upheld.

[54_and_counting]

On 14/02/2017 at 22:59, NewBallsPlease said:

I agree with Harvey. I'd like to know how often a team reports on good performances from a referee. Nobody is slow to let you know if a ref has been stinking, it's a weekly occurrence if you look through some social media accounts but seldom do you see a good referee mentioned.

There's some exceptions, particularly with referees that go fishing for compliments themselves on Twitter.

what is a good performance from a ref though, one that calls decisions as he sees them based on the rules of the game, if so isnt he simply doing the job he is paid for

in my work i think i do my job pretty well, but unless i go over and above what my job entails i dont expect anyone to say "well done on doing what you are paid to do" as the payment for the job is the reward effectively, but if i wasnt doing what i am being paid for id expect criticism

[NewBallsPlease]

I understand your point mate (54 n counting) and I'm not suggesting a referee is awarded an MBE for having a good game. The point I'm making is that if a ref is woeful gets the same fee as one that's good.

If good refereeing performance are flagged to the relevant league/association then they can, in turn, be handed the tougher/bigger games. Ultimately it's for the good of the game.

Also, if a club is one that does let leagues etc know of good referees then perhaps when complaints come in said leagues would be more receptive to them.

[pleslie99]

what is a good performance from a ref though, one that calls decisions as he sees them based on the rules of the game, if so isnt he simply doing the job he is paid for
in my work i think i do my job pretty well, but unless i go over and above what my job entails i dont expect anyone to say "well done on doing what you are paid to do" as the payment for the job is the reward effectively, but if i wasnt doing what i am being paid for id expect criticism

I understand what you are saying but a referee isn't doing a game as their full time employment. They are doing it for the love of the game and to allow others to play the game they love. Without them there is no game. I don't know your like of work, but do you do your work day to day, to the best of your ability and then get people hurling abuse at you for your entire shift? Look at it without the ref hating specs.

Totally agree that praising good refs may encourage leagues to listen and take action against certain ones that are complained about. You will often find tho complaints are made by the losing team, never by the winning team. Read into that what you may

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, NewBallsPlease said:

I understand your point mate (54 n counting) and I'm not suggesting a referee is awarded an MBE for having a good game. The point I'm making is that if a ref is woeful gets the same fee as one that's good.

If good refereeing performance are flagged to the relevant league/association then they can, in turn, be handed the tougher/bigger games. Ultimately it's for the good of the game.

Also, if a club is one that does let leagues etc know of good referees then perhaps when complaints come in said leagues would be more receptive to them.

who would decide on a good refereeing performance though, ive no doubt dynamo thought the ref had a cracker in their game whereas hillview would have said he was utter garbage

1 hour ago, pleslie99 said:

I understand what you are saying but a referee isn't doing a game as their full time employment. They are doing it for the love of the game and to allow others to play the game they love. Without them there is no game. I don't know your like of work, but do you do your work day to day, to the best of your ability and then get people hurling abuse at you for your entire shift? Look at it without the ref hating specs.

Totally agree that praising good refs may encourage leagues to listen and take action against certain ones that are complained about. You will often find tho complaints are made by the losing team, never by the winning team. Read into that what you may

maybe higher up refs are doing it for the game they love etc, but lets not kid ourselves on here, a lot of amateur refs  do it because its an easy 40 quid for less than 2 hours work, start paying them 8 quid an hour and see just how many do it for the game they supposedly love

and if i was being paid around 20 quid an hour tax free id allow people to hurl whatever abuse they liked at me, 6 hours work at the weekend for 120 quid, its a no brainer

you say without them there is no game, without the many MANY amateur players PAYING week in week out to play then these refs nice little side earner is long stopped and some of them may actually have to start working like the rest of us joe bloggs, these players that pay x amount every week deserve to have refs that give a shit and actually work for their 40 quid, instead of praising refs that do this we should be making sure its mandatory

and before anyone asks no i wouldnt like to try being a ref because im not fit enough and never would be, not got the temperament and canny be arsed learning everything needed for it

[Disco30]

2 hours ago, pleslie99 said:

I understand what you are saying but a referee isn't doing a game as their full time employment. They are doing it for the love of the game and to allow others to play the game they love. Without them there is no game. I don't know your like of work, but do you do your work day to day, to the best of your ability and then get people hurling abuse at you for your entire shift? Look at it without the ref hating specs.

Totally agree that praising good refs may encourage leagues to listen and take action against certain ones that are complained about. You will often find tho complaints are made by the losing team, never by the winning team. Read into that what you may

Who you kidding on refs are doing this for the love of the game my arse. As 54 pointed out their doing it for their dough and that's it. Not having a go at refs because there's many a good one out there but there's also plenty of arrogant arseholes out there who feel once they put on their refs gear and have cards and a whistle that they have the right to talk to people like shite. Refs take a lot of stick from st least 50% of those in attendance but that's part and parcel of the job. If it wasn't 40 quid for the couple of hours they wouldn't do it a can guarantee they wouldn't do it for minimum wage that's for sure.

[NewBallsPlease]

54 n counting (not quoting due to length of post). Whether Dynamo thought he had a good game, in this instance, is irrelevant. His decision was completely wrong according to the laws of the game, there's no hiding from that.

The teams decide if the referee had a good game. Of course there will be an element of 'loser thinks the ref was shit, winner didn't' but league secretaries will soon work out the good/ok/poor referees. Without feedback it simply can't be done unless every game has an independent 'assessor' and that's impossible.

Disco: It's not fair to say refs don't do it for the love of it. I agree completely that the £40 must appeal to them but would you do it for £40? The abuse I've seen some of them take (including physical) certainly isn't worth it for the case alone.

I also agree that there's 'arrogant arseholes' refereeing and also that there's 'good ones'. I'd be willing to bet that teams are happier to flag up the former than they are the latter.