New clubs in the East of Scotland

[Sergeant Wilson]

40 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So in summary five southwestern West Lothian clubs (Fauldhouse, Harthill, Armadale, Staneyburn and Whitburn) plus Kilbride Thistle could explain the six WoS applicants mentioned on the Kilwinning Rangers twitch?

I know I had brought the possibility up a few weeks ago that they might "move".

I wonder if WaS might think "we've got enough nutters of our own without bringing this mob of  junior zealots, incapable of resolving problems in"

 Or words to that effect.

Edited February 1, 2021 by Sergeant Wilson

[Dev]

4 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I know I had brought the possibility up a few weeks ago that they might "move".

I wonder if WaS might think "we've got enough nutters of our own without bringing this job of  junior zealots, incapable of resolving problems in"

 Or words to that effect.

Would either of the WoS or the EoS be keen to "poach" clubs from each others' patch as it could mean trading on neighbours' toes? 

Guessing that the two leagues are more likely to set out to co-operate with each other than compete for clubs from the others' patch. Have the leagues defined the limits to their respective patches? Could they over-lap?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Dev
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[FairWeatherFan]

2 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

I know I had brought the possibility up a few weeks ago that they might "move".

I wonder if WaS might think "we've got enough nutters of our own without bringing this job of  junior zealots, incapable of resolving problems in"

 Or words to that effect.

I dont think the WoSFL in 2021-22 is the safe harbour some people might think it is. 

There's only 3 promotion spots available with the Premier already at 20. It doesn't look likely they'll split to 4 conferences. 

Conference sides are already facing 30 rounds and a potential later start to the season to try and get crowds from the beginning. 

That's a lot to be dealing without adding teams outwith their traditional catchment area. 

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, Dev said:

I wonder how the travelling would compare in the WoS compared to the EoS for any W. Lothian Juniors making that switch? Anyone up for checking that?

At this point i dont think anyone has a working crystal ball to tell you what the leagues might look like next year. 

Even longer term some of these clubs are likely for bottom tiers that might be regionalised. Others region wide leagues. 

Harthill seem the smartest move. Regular bottom tier side. If the West regionalise, they're basically going little further than Glasgow. In the East it might be multiple trips to the Borders 

[LongTimeLurker]

14 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

...I wonder if WaS might think "we've got enough nutters of our own without bringing this mob of  junior zealots, incapable of resolving problems in"...

Guess it depends on whether most WoS clubs are still SJFA orientated at this point or not. A majority did retain their membership but it's probably a mistake to read too deeply into that.

[Burnieman]

The leagues have spoken to each other about boundaries.  I'd be very surprised if they allow a situation akin to a free-for-all to exist in West Lothian.  It doesn't help anyone.

The applications are born out of bitterness over what has happened in the east, some people on some comittees don't want to lose face by applying to the EoS after levelling some vitriolic abuse at it for years.  They need to get a grip frankly, as far as I can tell there's no animosity from the EoS side if they want to join. Sign up and get on with it.

The WoS should point those applicants back in the direction of the EoS, with Harthill an exception if that is what they want to do.

 

[Stag Nation]

46 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Harthill seem the smartest move. Regular bottom tier side. If the West regionalise, they're basically going little further than Glasgow. In the East it might be multiple trips to the Borders 

But if it doesn't regionalise? And what if the EoS regionalises?

[FairWeatherFan]

Just now, Stag Nation said:

But if it doesn't regionalise? And what if the EoS regionalises?

67 clubs right going the traditional 16 team leagues = 16-16-16-19 for the West. It's going to be easier to split the 3rd Division regionally or conferences to allow for season to season changes in numbers.

In the East even if they do regionalise. That would be a South Division most likely, meaning multiple trips to the Borders.

[AlanCamelonfan]

41 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

67 clubs right going the traditional 16 team leagues = 16-16-16-19 for the West. It's going to be easier to split the 3rd Division regionally or conferences to allow for season to season changes in numbers.

In the East even if they do regionalise. That would be a South Division most likely, meaning multiple trips to the Borders.

Is tweedmouth coldstream any further for them than south ayrshire. If they apply for wosfl they are a joke and shouldn't be allowed 

[GordonS]

Apart from Harthill, are the West Lothian sides planning to apply to the WoS for any other reason than that they don't regard the EoS as Juniors-y enough, and have too much pride to limp in now?

[Ginaro]

4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said:

So in summary five southwestern West Lothian clubs (Fauldhouse, Harthill, Armadale, Staneyburn and Whitburn) plus Kilbride Thistle could explain the six WoS applicants mentioned on the Kilwinning Rangers twitch?

I would say unlikely as the quote from Colin Boyd two weeks ago was: "We've already six clubs applied to join, they might be able to join next year, ... it'll go to the AGM. .... some of these teams are amateur clubs" https://www.twitchDOTtv/videos/879987902 (43:00, remove the DOT as it was trying to embed it)

3 hours ago, Dev said:

Would either of the WoS or the EoS be keen to "poach" clubs from each others' patch as it could mean trading on neighbours' toes? 

Guessing that the two leagues are more likely to set out to co-operate with each other than compete for clubs from the others' patch. Have the leagues defined the limits to their respective patches? Could they over-lap?

Finally found the quote I was looking for: http://slfl.co.uk/pyramid-statement-2/

"This plan is to allow every Club at all grades in the SLFL area the opportunity to progress through the Pyramid. There will of course be issues such as geographical integrity to be considered with the introduction of a third Tier 6 League alongside the EoSFL and SoSFL. This and any other consequences will be addressed in a respectful, constructive and orderly way."

3 hours ago, Burnieman said:

The leagues have spoken to each other about boundaries.  I'd be very surprised if they allow a situation akin to a free-for-all to exist in West Lothian.  It doesn't help anyone.

The applications are born out of bitterness over what has happened in the east, some people on some comittees don't want to lose face by applying to the EoS after levelling some vitriolic abuse at it for years.  They need to get a grip frankly, as far as I can tell there's no animosity from the EoS side if they want to join. Sign up and get on with it.

The WoS should point those applicants back in the direction of the EoS, with Harthill an exception if that is what they want to do.

The North and South Lanarkshire council boundary currently splits the EoS and WoS perfectly. Apart from Dunipace who are now on the correct side, has anyone else played across that boundary since the East/West Regions were formed?

Edited February 1, 2021 by Ginaro

[Burnieman]

The North and South Lanarkshire council boundary currently splits the EoS and WoS perfectly. Apart from Dunipace who are now on the correct side, has anyone else played across that boundary since the East/West Regions were formed?

No. Fauldhouse West End / United and previous Harthill clubs played in Lanarkshire pre-WWII, then there was the wartime Lanark & Lothians League, but everyone returned to their own leagues soon after.

As far as am aware, Stoneyburn, Armadale, Bathgate, Whitburn, West Calder etc have absolutely no history of playing league football outwith the Lothians.

[FairWeatherFan]

21 minutes ago, AlanCamelonfan said:

Is tweedmouth coldstream any further for them than south ayrshire. If they apply for wosfl they are a joke and shouldn't be allowed 

Basically the same. Which is why I pointed out a regionalised bottom tier of the West has the potential to be more attractive than a bottom tier of the East.

[FairWeatherFan]

For me the important parts to this is that there's no co-ordinated approach. The last couple of years these clubs have rejigged the East Region for their benefit. Yet they can't work together to enter the pyramid together.

And Pumpherston & West Calder look to be joining Livingston United in keeping things simple. Which means there isn't likely to be anything left behind, unless Armadale & co start playing Tayside teams again.

[Whitburn Vale]

My contact is involved with Harthill.

Travelling is the no.1 driving force for the WoS application and yeah a trip to South Ayrshire is they're prefered furthest trip compared to the Borders.

All the clubs involved (5) are in constant contact with one another,as for Bathgate Thistle,they still have other issues to sort out.

It was one of Kilwinning's representatives that spoke to HRJFC about a WoS application.

[sdr71]

4 hours ago, GordonS said:

Apart from Harthill, are the West Lothian sides planning to apply to the WoS for any other reason than that they don't regard the EoS as Juniors-y enough, and have too much pride to limp in now?

No idea if this is a factor in anyone's decision-making, but next season's WoS structure is a known quantity - conferences - with known travel costs.  Next season's EoS structure is clear as mud at this point - Premier/First/conferences?  Premier/conferences?  Tayside clubs or not?  Regionalised conferences will give at least some West Lothian clubs five or six trips to the Borders, seeded conferences could mean Coupar Angus one week, Eyemouth the next.  

[Burnieman]

1 minute ago, sdr71 said:

No idea if this is a factor in anyone's decision-making, but next season's WoS structure is a known quantity - conferences - with known travel costs.  Next season's EoS structure is clear as mud at this point - Premier/First/conferences?  Premier/conferences?  Tayside clubs or not?  Regionalised conferences will give at least some West Lothian clubs five or six trips to the Borders, seeded conferences could mean Coupar Angus one week, Eyemouth the next.  

The EoS set-up next season is Premier (16) - First (16) - Second (17) as things stand.  Tayside are not involved.

If there are new applicants then the Second may go to two Conferences, or a Third Division.  Until the 31st March deadline passes, and then the AGM, nobody know how many new applicants there will be, same as the WoS.

[GordonS]

13 minutes ago, sdr71 said:

No idea if this is a factor in anyone's decision-making, but next season's WoS structure is a known quantity - conferences - with known travel costs.  Next season's EoS structure is clear as mud at this point - Premier/First/conferences?  Premier/conferences?  Tayside clubs or not?  Regionalised conferences will give at least some West Lothian clubs five or six trips to the Borders, seeded conferences could mean Coupar Angus one week, Eyemouth the next.  

There's no more chance of Tayside clubs being involved in the EoS than SoS clubs in the WoS. The travel won't be any further than they'd have in the WoS and they won't have derbies apart from against each other.

[Jimi Shandrix]

21 minutes ago, GordonS said:

There's no more chance of Tayside clubs being involved in the EoS than SoS clubs in the WoS. The travel won't be any further than they'd have in the WoS and they won't have derbies apart from against each other.

 I wouldn't put a huge amount of money on that at the moment.

[LongTimeLurker]

If Tayport is defined as a Tayside club, it's worth bearing in mind that they are known to be planning on putting an application in.

Edited February 2, 2021 by LongTimeLurker