John S Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Seems pointless to have a team in the EofS League if they don't qualify for promotion to the LL. If this is the case the application from FWE should not be accepted. EofS and WofS got together to decide boundaries and perhaps time for LL to clarify theirs. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 18 minutes ago, John S said: Seems pointless to have a team in the EofS League if they don't qualify for promotion to the LL. If this is the case the application from FWE should not be accepted. EofS and WofS got together to decide boundaries and perhaps time for LL to clarify theirs. As things stand they would qualify for promotion because there is nothing in the playoff rules about geography limiting who can be promoted. The EoS could unilaterally set their northern boundary at the Tay Bridge line of latitude easily enough. That they haven't done so suggests they expect the LL eventually to give way on the Tayside issue on Club 42 relegation in exchange for some other concession and want to be the only east feeder if/when that happens. Edited March 16, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastyMan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) 51 minutes ago, John S said: Seems pointless to have a team in the EofS League if they don't qualify for promotion to the LL. If this is the case the application from FWE should not be accepted. EofS and WofS got together to decide boundaries and perhaps time for LL to clarify theirs. Agreed and that's the paradox being argued here if they are accepted. FWE can be PROMOTED into the Lowland League because there IS NO geographical barrier. FWE cannot be RELEGATED into the Lowland Legaue because there IS a geographical barrier. Edited March 16, 2021 by PastyMan 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 Bizarre position to have. Needs sorted. Agreed and that's the paradox being argued here if they are accepted. FWE can be PROMOTED into the Lowland League because there IS NO geographical barrier. FWE cannot be RELEGATED into the Lowland Legaue because there IS a geographical barrier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 44 minutes ago, PastyMan said: Agreed and that's the paradox being argued here if they are accepted. FWE can be PROMOTED into the Lowland League because there IS NO geographical barrier. FWE cannot be RELEGATED into the Lowland Legaue because there IS a geographical barrier. I said that a few pages back about a more realistic prospect, Lochee. They could win the LL, get promoted into L2, but if they got relegated they'd be sent to the HL. The authorities just need to get together and finish the job. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 If the LL had agreed to the Club 42 boundary shift that Brechin City and co wanted at their last AGM there would have been no more paradox. There was a post from a Kelty Hearts poster that suggested the only reason it didn't happen was the LL asked for financial compensation from the SPFL to cover the cost of extra travel but the SPFL refused to provide it. If that's accurate then the EoS can't rely on the LL to keep the Club 42 boundary where it is now and need to treat Tayside as a potential future addition to their catchment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, GordonS said: I said that a few pages back about a more realistic prospect, Lochee. They could win the LL, get promoted into L2, but if they got relegated they'd be sent to the HL. The authorities just need to get together and finish the job. As has been highlighted by the WoS/EoS discussions between the leagues, the committess are actually talking to each other. As far as i'm aware it's still the same secretary between the LL/EoS for instance which makes things even easier in this instance So when the time comes the membership will be reasonably well informed of what the different leagues are actually thinking. For instance if the LL are dead against, the EoS would know before having to vote on any applications. What we're seeing here is the usual guesswork and conspiracy theories from those out of the loop. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: As has been highlighted by the WoS/EoS discussions between the leagues, the committess are actually talking to each other. As far as i'm aware it's still the same secretary between the LL/EoS for instance which makes things even easier in this instance I don't think there's a consistent view on that, so we'll wait for the white smoke. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, GordonS said: I don't think there's a consistent view on that, so we'll wait for the white smoke. The inconsistent view on this is what is being said to Tayside clubs and the supposed talks that are happening between unknown representatives. With the pyramid leagues having to co-ordinate a finish to their league seasons and having the same league secretary between EoS and LL its a given they're going to be in contact with each other. The LL & EoS reps also had to sit through years of PWG meetings and league meetings so actually know what their members think about 'Tayside' in relation to the Lowland League. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 (edited) It's weird that it is argued that the Lowland league cannot make decisions for itself that every other league can and does. It isn't the reality of the situation. If a club does not comply with all the criteria decided upon by the Lowland League then it can reject them. Only the Lowland League sets out those criteria. It's really just the same as for all other leagues. Edited March 16, 2021 by Dev . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Dev said: It's weird that it is argued that the Lowland league cannot make decisions for itself that every other league can and does. It isn't the reality of the situation. If a club does not comply with all the criteria decided upon by the Lowland League then it can reject them. Only the Lowland League sets out those criteria. It's really just the same as for all other leagues. The LL and what they think is probably a bit all over the place today. Forfar WE announcing for the EoSFL, SPFL2 expansion/Colts inclusion, and the news about football not likely starting until May. That's a triple whammy of above, below, and the status quo to juggle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 22 minutes ago, Dev said: It's weird that it is argued that the Lowland league cannot make decisions for itself that every other league can and does. It isn't the reality of the situation. If a club does not comply with all the criteria decided upon by the Lowland League then it can reject them. Only the Lowland League sets out those criteria. It's really just the same as for all other leagues. That's not true because the LL is part of agreements with other bodies for the pyramid play-offs and the lower pyramid play-offs. They also can't make their own decisions on discipline. Obviously they have lots of freedom but it's not unfettered, nor is it for any league in the pyramid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 The East Juniors may have already played their final games .......... ever. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 12 minutes ago, GordonS said: That's not true because the LL is part of agreements with other bodies for the pyramid play-offs and the lower pyramid play-offs. They also can't make their own decisions on discipline. Obviously they have lots of freedom but it's not unfettered, nor is it for any league in the pyramid. They can change their rules. What you're arguing for is someone challenging the changes to prevent it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: They can change their rules. What you're arguing for is someone challenging the changes to prevent it. That's like saying I can steal sweets, but I can be challenged for it. It's semantics. To be clear, I'm saying that if the SFLF, or any other league, changes in their rules in ways that breach agreements with other bodies, there's likely to be consequences for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 3 minutes ago, GordonS said: That's like saying I can steal sweets, but I can be challenged for it. It's semantics. To be clear, I'm saying that if the SFLF, or any other league, changes in their rules in ways that breach agreements with other bodies, there's likely to be consequences for that. It's not a breach of the agreement in that the Lowland League because the pyramid league playoff rules on stipulates Membership Criteria. So there's no specific breach of any rule. It's within the Lowland League's right to amend the Membership Criteria, and as has been shown by them being on Version 13 of the rulebook in an 8 season time period, they have done previously. On that front alone any challenge would fail. Even if you go beyond that it's just as much a case as the EoSFL breached the agreement first. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malty Guy Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 2 hours ago, GordonS said: I said that a few pages back about a more realistic prospect, Lochee. They could win the LL, get promoted into L2, but if they got relegated they'd be sent to the HL. The authorities just need to get together and finish the job. I follow your argument and logic fellah. think what we are debating is unforeseen circumstances that were never ever planned for. it’s created a paradox - and left the door open for a cascade of should’ve done better, should’ve done and should’ve done this!! im sure it’ll be resolved. Doubt if the resolution will keep everyone though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 25 minutes ago, Malty Guy said: I follow your argument and logic fellah. think what we are debating is unforeseen circumstances that were never ever planned for. it’s created a paradox - and left the door open for a cascade of should’ve done better, should’ve done and should’ve done this!! im sure it’ll be resolved. Doubt if the resolution will keep everyone though. The Pyramid Paradox - I like it. Luncarty is in both the highlands and the lowlands - the Perthshire Pyramid Paradox. Tayport is in the lowlands but wants to stick with Dundee - the Peh Pyramid Paradox. Scone are north of the Tay but south of the line - the Potamic Pyramid Paradox. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malty Guy Posted March 16, 2021 Share Posted March 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, GordonS said: The Pyramid Paradox - I like it. Luncarty is in both the highlands and the lowlands - the Perthshire Pyramid Paradox. Tayport is in the lowlands but wants to stick with Dundee - the Peh Pyramid Paradox. Scone are north of the Tay but south of the line - the Potamic Pyramid Paradox. Love it,,,,,,, it’s a bit like having the answer but no too sure what the question was 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 Podcast appearance by the new WoSFL Chair just after the WoS/EoS boundary decision was made. Only Harthill get name checked as having a choice from the East Juniors. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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