The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[medals]

15 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Just going back to the young guys going out on loan. Offord is 19, Taylor is 20.

Going back to the start of the season we won the Scottish Cup in 86/87 and looking at the players - Ferguson, Hamilton, Winnie and Cameron were all 19. Paul Lambert was 17.
 

David Winnie had first established himself as a first team regular in 83/84, Ian Cameron was a first team regular. We paid £60k for Ian Ferguson. 
 

Thierry Small was only 18 last season. 

Ian Ferguson was a £1 million player (1987 prices) by the time he reached Fraser Taylor’s age. He was a star player in the Premier League.

Shouldn’t these guys be in the first team squad at this age?

The standards now are higher. Players generally are fitter, on better diets etc.

Managers won't take big risks in the top leagues as the consequences are serious.

Also Offord and Taylor are not good enough yet. That's the reason they go out on loan. To gain consistency and more match experience at a higher standard than they have mostly played at.

[Coventry Saint]

36 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

less than the full shilling.

Which is also what DFC have historically paid their creditors.

[Bakero]

Robinson spoke earlier in the year about how players are developing later now, after Lewis Jamieson signed a contract extension:

“He has to be utilised, but the problem is that kids here are probably two years behind where they should be because of covid, the cuts and not having the teams available to have that transition between 18s and first-team.

We’re playing a little bit of catch-up. Players mature a lot later than they used to. It used to be at 18 they were ready for the first team but now it’s 21, 22.”

[Captain_Sensible]

33 minutes ago, medals said:

The standards now are higher. Players generally are fitter, on better diets etc.

 

Applies to all age groups so not relevant to my point
 

Managers won't take big risks in the top leagues as the consequences are serious.

 

Thierry Small was 18 last season. Ethan Erhahon had 98 first team appearances under his belt by Fraser Taylor’s age.

Man United are about to pay £70 million for a player same age as Fraser Taylor

At age 19/20 it surely shouldn’t be a “risk”?

Also Offord and Taylor are not good enough yet. That's the reason they go out on loan. To gain consistency and more match experience at a higher standard than they have mostly played at.

 

If they’re not good enough at ages 19/20, I doubt that going to the part time 3rd tier or Northern  Irish league is suddenly going to make them capable of playing for us.

At age 19/20 you should at the very least be a first team squad player capable of starting games otherwise you’re never going to be good enough. 

[smellthepaw]

3 minutes ago, Bakero said:

Robinson spoke earlier in the year about how players are developing later now, after Lewis Jamieson signed a contract extension:

“He has to be utilised, but the problem is that kids here are probably two years behind where they should be because of covid, the cuts and not having the teams available to have that transition between 18s and first-team.

We’re playing a little bit of catch-up. Players mature a lot later than they used to. It used to be at 18 they were ready for the first team but now it’s 21, 22.”

Thats a very valid point I hadn't considered.

[Doonhame Buddie]

Hemming will do fine, we have creativity and grit in midfield, Robinson will shuffle the forwards into an effective formation. 

Only real concern is the back three. I don’t think any combination of Fraser/Dunne/Bolton/Taylor/(Gogic) will do it for us this season. 

Letting Shaughnessy and Gallagher go was absolutely the right call but we desperately need an experienced leader in there. 

[Captain_Sensible]

3 minutes ago, Bakero said:

Robinson spoke earlier in the year about how players are developing later now, after Lewis Jamieson signed a contract extension:

“He has to be utilised, but the problem is that kids here are probably two years behind where they should be because of covid, the cuts and not having the teams available to have that transition between 18s and first-team.

We’re playing a little bit of catch-up. Players mature a lot later than they used to. It used to be at 18 they were ready for the first team but now it’s 21, 22.”

Aaron Hickey is a year older than Fraser Taylor. He’s played 107 first games, had a full season in both Serie A and the English Premiership and has 11 caps for Scotland.

If you’re good enough, you’re old enough! 

[Dirty Sanchez]

I hadn't seen those Raith Rovers goals since witnessing them from the terracing on that day. I had to go and watch the 6-0 game on YouTube to bring balance back to my universe. However, while I was there I found this gem about the walk-out protest to get rid of Jimmy Bone.

 

[houston_bud]

7 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Aaron Hickey is a year older than Fraser Taylor. He’s played 107 first games, had a full season in both Serie A and the English Premiership and has 11 caps for Scotland.

If you’re good enough, you’re old enough! 

Kyle Magennis became a regular when he was 18, McAllister too. That was in a much weaker side though. I felt Dylan Reid looked like he could be a regular any time I saw him.

I actually think St Mirren have done OK for developing young players over the past 10 years or so. As the team has improved, there's been a desire to bring in better players which has meant less game time for younger players. Also whilst Celtic, Rangers and teams in England have always been able to take young players from teams like us, I think that's a bigger problem now. They all have development squads and pay reasonable money to the players. 

 

[Friskysteed]

27 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Applies to all age groups so not relevant to my point
 

 

 

Thierry Small was 18 last season. Ethan Erhahon had 98 first team appearances under his belt by Fraser Taylor’s age.

Man United are about to pay £70 million for a player same age as Fraser Taylor

At age 19/20 it surely shouldn’t be a “risk”?

 

 

If they’re not good enough at ages 19/20, I doubt that going to the part time 3rd tier or Northern  Irish league is suddenly going to make them capable of playing for us.

At age 19/20 you should at the very least be a first team squad player capable of starting games otherwise you’re never going to be good enough. 

Tell that to Jamie Vardy

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, Friskysteed said:

Tell that to Jamie Vardy

Do you have his contact details?

 

 

Edited August 4, 2023 by Captain_Sensible

[Drooper]

Not one of them has tagged us for the drop.

That concerns me deeply....

[ZingaliMan]

There is a behind the scenes video of Saints at the training ground can be found at the Record & Renfrewshire World . There is no link to forward it though maybe someone knows how. Worth a watch lads. 

[Mac28]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/behind-st-mirren-scenes-stephen-30618948?utm_source=linkCopy&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar

Best I can do is a link to the page

[btb]

This season's transfer merry-go-round seems pretty standard - IMO we've a few players to bring in and the manager is holding back to see who becomes available towards the end of the window. As ever my worry is the late departure of a key player like Baccus with little time to make an adequate replacement.

Edited August 4, 2023 by btb

[glenburn bud]

19 minutes ago, elvis said:

There's a stat on BBC.web site.our manager has never won an opening day match in his managerial career don't see that changing on Sunday. 

I’m quite happy for all the pessimistic and negative stuff to be churned out as i know it drives the players on.

Even if we do lose the opening game it’s hardly a disaster, although the usual suspects will no doubt take that view.

We lost the opening game to Motherwell last season, then went on to have a very good season. 
 

The time to judge is after the first quarter of games, that will be a marker as to how we are shaping up for the long haul.

[djchapsticks]

24 minutes ago, glenburn bud said:

I’m quite happy for all the pessimistic and negative stuff to be churned out as i know it drives the players on.

Even if we do lose the opening game it’s hardly a disaster, although the usual suspects will no doubt take that view.

We lost the opening game to Motherwell last season, then went on to have a very good season. 
 

The time to judge is after the first quarter of games, that will be a marker as to how we are shaping up for the long haul.

Yeah. I did say last season after the Motherwell game that we had to make sure we weren't going to be a hard luck story with all the chances we created.

We were definitely slow starters last season but once we go going we motored on quite nicely without ever finding any real consistency. If we can turn a few of those away defeats into draws and a couple of the draws into wins, I'll be pretty happy. Our away form last season was uncharacteristically poor and put home form was uncharacteristically good. If we can maintain the home form and even improve slightly on our travels, that would be ideal!

[Wilbur]

1 hour ago, elvis said:

There's a stat on BBC.web site.our manager has never won an opening day match in his managerial career don't see that changing on Sunday. 

Andy Murray had never won a tennis Grand Slam tournament until he won his first one.

Sandy Lyle had never won a golf Major until he won his first one.

So what's your point Elvis ?

[AW saint]

Regardless of how we do on Sunday it really is great to have league football back. 

Loving the positivity from Robbo. He really is the best manager out there. If only we had the budget of Hearts etc. 

[medals]

4 hours ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Applies to all age groups so not relevant to my point
 

I disgree. If the standards are higher, even at all levels, its still going to be more difficult to step up. How many good young players never make it and end up falling away - more than ever before

 

Thierry Small was 18 last season. (But he was so raw and cost us through needless sending offs etc.

Ethan Erhahon had 98 first team appearances under his belt by Fraser Taylor’s age.

He got his chance earlier when we were in a lower league and less budget to play with.  He was also better than Taylor at that age.

Man United are about to pay £70 million for a player same age as Fraser Taylor

At age 19/20 it surely shouldn’t be a “risk”?

It's ludicrous to compare one of the best young prospects to Fraser Taylor. He clearly is not as well developed yet and likely won't ever be that standard.

Also some players naturally mature later. McAvenie comes to mind.

 

If they’re not good enough at ages 19/20, I doubt that going to the part time 3rd tier or Northern  Irish league is suddenly going to make them capable of playing for us.

At age 19/20 you should at the very least be a first team squad player capable of starting games otherwise you’re never going to be good enough. 

This is a very narrow view in my opinion. Every age or divisional step up is a big one. If Offord was better than 3rd tier, at this stage, that's where he be sent. So by your logic we should have just got shot of him rather than waste any more time trying to develop him. SR gave him some 1st team action and he was not at the required level yet. However, SR believes there is still a chance.

We've all got opinions

Edited August 4, 2023 by medals
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