The European football level St. Mirren FC 2024/25 thread

[djchapsticks]

2 hours ago, houston_bud said:

Lots of us weren't impressed by the possibility of signing Moult. He's been excellent, a goal and a hand in the rest if them. OK Arboath look utter shite but if he stays fit he'll be a good player for them.

 

2 hours ago, AW saint said:

Totally agree.  A fit Moult will bag a lot of goals at that level. He has a strikers instinct. We don't have one of those. 

I don't think all things being equal, any of us were particularly concerned about Moult from a quality perspective.

His injury record is absolutely horrific though and defintely was a dealbreaker for me.

[Molotov]

31 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

 

I don't think all things being equal, any of us were particularly concerned about Moult from a quality perspective.

His injury record is absolutely horrific though and defintely was a dealbreaker for me.

And we’ve had enough expensive strikers spending most weeks with the physio down the years.
Even though United are in the Championship they are likely able to spend a larger outlay on star players wages. 

[medals]

2 hours ago, djchapsticks said:

 

I don't think all things being equal, any of us were particularly concerned about Moult from a quality perspective.

His injury record is absolutely horrific though and defintely was a dealbreaker for me.

He was a waste of a wage back at Motherwell... was that just last season or the one before?

[Black_and_White_Stripes]

4 hours ago, jaybeee said:

I agree with booing him, childish or not, effective or not, but it lets him know what the grown-ups think of him, vehemently disagree re Hladky and Alnwick, those two were far superior to Carson by several degrees,  Hladky = 9, Alnwick = 8, Carson = 6 in my opinion anyway.

Without doubt, all three were very good. I think we have been fortunate to have had them all. I personally think Carson had the edge. Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, unless somebody can make a case based on statistics? However, regardless of how good he was, we definitely did the right think in getting shot of him. I think most of us can agree on that (though I do see the point made by some, that selling him to another Premiership team strengthens our rivals). 

Aye, he has to be booed. He has to be! I cannot think of anywhere it's more socially acceptable to boo someone than at the fitba; maybe a pantomime? If it was a pantomime, he'd play the ultimate villain. What he has done is wrong on so many levels and I would be very disappointed with our fans if we don't let him know exactly what we think of him. I don't think it's childish and I do think it would be effective if enough people were to do it.

One final point - I think it would be nice if Shaugnessy received a warm reception, on its own merit. He has served the club and despite being left out of the team by Robbo he didn't act petulantly and stepped up when called to do so. However, by contrast, it will make Carson's reception even more emphatic. I wonder if the Northbank could create a banner - thanking Joe for his service and lambasting Carson? Some may well think that's taking things too far, but I think if we can agitate him it would give us a good sporting advantage and potentially dent his confidence for the season. I do wonder if he will actually play, given all that's gone on, that they have three other 'keepers (?) and the fact he's not had a game yet this season? Would they dare to leave him on the bench? I suppose we will see if features against Motherwell tomorrow.

As I see it, this is a God-given opportunity! 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Black_and_White_Stripes

[AlfieMoon]

1 hour ago, Black_and_White_Stripes said:

Without doubt, all three were very good. I think we have been fortunate to have had them all. I personally think Carson had the edge. Ultimately, it's a matter of opinion, unless somebody can make a case based on statistics? However, regardless of how good he was, we definitely did the right think in getting shot of him. I think most of us can agree on that (though I do see the point made by some, that selling him to another Premiership team strengthens our rivals). 

Aye, he has to be booed. He has to be! I cannot think of anywhere it's more socially acceptable to boo someone than at the fitba; maybe a pantomime? If it was a pantomime, he'd play the ultimate villain. What he has done is wrong on so many levels and I would be very disappointed with our fans if we don't let him know exactly what we think of him. I don't think it's childish and I do think it would be effective if enough people were to do it.

One final point - I think it would be nice if Shaugnessy received a warm reception, on its own merit. He has served the club and despite being left out of the team by Robbo he didn't act petulantly and stepped up when called to do so. However, by contrast, it will make Carson's reception even more emphatic. I wonder if the Northbank could create a banner - thanking Joe for his service and lambasting Carson? Some may well think that's taking things too far, but I think if we can agitate him it would give us a good sporting advantage and potentially dent his confidence for the season. I do wonder if he will actually play, given all that's gone on, that they have three other 'keepers (?) and the fact he's not had a game yet this season? Would they dare to leave him on the bench? I suppose we will see if features against Motherwell tomorrow.

As I see it, this is a God-given opportunity! 

Maybe everyone should throw dummy tits onto the pitch as Carson approaches the goal mouth - since he clearly lost his. 

[Molotov]

2 hours ago, AlfieMoon said:

Maybe everyone should throw dummy tits onto the pitch as Carson approaches the goal mouth - since he clearly lost his. 

Nah. Oranges.

1690 of them.

 

[Lex]

Alnwick > Hladky > Carson for me. Their respective careers bare that out too. Carson’s ceiling is a club like ours, he has never and will never play at a higher level, and it’s no surprise he’s moved downwards from us. I believe Hladky’s now third choice at Ipswich having left us to go to League 2. Alnwick on the other hand played first team games for both Newcastle and Rangers and left us to go to the English Championship, where he’s second choice.

Not that it’s that important, big question is where will Hemmings fit in. I suspect he’s the weakest of the four, and I hope and think we will sign another keeper before the end of the month.

 

[Road Dogg]

5 hours ago, Black_and_White_Stripes said:

I wonder if the Northbank could create a banner - thanking Joe for his service and lambasting Carson?

Thank him for what? He was a paid employee who done a good job, nothing less, nothing more. He's hardly a club legend. 

This debate where grown men seem desperate to cheer and boo former players is plain weird behaviour. Carson is an irrelevance now that he's gone and so is Joe. 

[Ric]

Lowry, I feel, would have been on pretty decent wages, hence why he's going to Hearts and not St Johnstone or Livi.

Moult is held together by sticky tape and good wishes. You'll see numerous clips of him bamboozling Championship defences, and wonder "why didn't we buy him", yet we'll not see the runs of games he'll end up on the bench with an injury.

I think the former would have had more of an impact, but would be expensive, while the latter would offer you only glimpses rather than a consistent season.

[Div]

Point of order please.

it’s Zach Hemming.
There is no S

[medals]

15 minutes ago, Ric said:

Lowry, I feel, would have been on pretty decent wages, hence why he's going to Hearts and not St Johnstone or Livi.

Moult is held together by sticky tape and good wishes. You'll see numerous clips of him bamboozling Championship defences, and wonder "why didn't we buy him", yet we'll not see the runs of games he'll end up on the bench with an injury.

I think the former would have had more of an impact, but would be expensive, while the latter would offer you only glimpses rather than a consistent season.

Lowry has gone to Hearts cause Naismith knows what he has to offer. His loan deal won't include his full wages either.

He is a far bigger goal threat than Baccus or Kiltie and could have slotted in at RM for us - especially if Baccus goes. He nearly came to us last January.

He could also play LM too if O'Hara is suspended/rested/injured etc. Or if we had 4 across the middle.

Edited August 5, 2023 by medals

[NorthBank]

Lowry is no loss to us. Surprised he went to Hearts as he'll get little game time there considering the size of their squad.

If we continue to play a 3-4-3 with 2 wing backs then we already have O'Hara, Baccus, CBM, Gogic, Kiltie, (Flynn) all vying for the 2 midfield places. And what does that say to our own Academy players when we bring in a 20yo to develop for another Club? Better to give the likes of Sutherland and Jamieson game time. Lowry is  maybe a decent player but not one that we should be developing to help Sevco at the expense of our own lads.

[djchapsticks]

Say it all the time, unless there is a very specific reason for a loan (includes an option to buy, is needed in case of an emergency or you are needing to pad a squad out towards end of a transfer window) then I'd be using it as a very last option.

I fully disagree with folk saying we should be going to try and get Small back from Southampton on loan. That would be last resort for me. I'd much rather Foyle (who is here to scout players we could sell on for profit) is put to use and a proper LWB is targeted. We have funds and budget available to do so, so why when we have money, would we throw that money at a short term fix that will have no chance of benefitting us long term in shape of a player sale?

Same with Lowry. A loan is just not for me in this case. I'd have taken him in January on dealine day when we were linled as we needed to fill that area of the park at short notice. I feel we're not at that stage anymore as a club where we need to rely heavily on these sort of deals. If we get to the last three or four days of the window and could use cover in areas where we may sell then I'll have no issue with the loan market but until then? Nah!

Edited August 5, 2023 by djchapsticks

[ZingaliMan]

 

[medals]

23 minutes ago, djchapsticks said:

Say it all the time, unless there is a very specific reason for a loan (includes an option to buy, is needed in case of an emergency or you are needing to pad a squad out towards end of a transfer window) then I'd be using it as a very last option.

I fully disagree with folk saying we should be going to try and get Small back from Southampton on loan. That would be last resort for me. I'd much rather Foyle (who is here to scout players we could sell on for profit) is put to use and a proper LWB is targeted. We have funds and budget available to do so, so why when we have money, would we throw that money at a short term fix that will have no chance of benefitting us long term in shape of a player sale?

Same with Lowry. A loan is just not for me in this case. I'd have taken him in January on dealine day when we were linled as we needed to fill that area of the park at short notice. I feel we're not at that stage anymore as a club where we need to rely heavily on these sort of deals. If we get to the last three or four days of the window and could use cover in areas where we may sell then I'll have no issue with the loan market but until then? Nah!

I agree fully with you. I doubt Lowry is going to get a chance longer term at Ibrox and will become available,  but chances are we wouldn't be able to afford him as ours anyway. Hearts though might, then sell him on.

I think the goals he can score will enhance his value to them though, but we'll see.

[Captain_Sensible]

I think loans are a great idea for a club like us.

Modern football is now a mixture of looking at the long term with a core group of players and then short fixes

Getting a player in on loan for a season is no different then having a guy with 1 year left on his contract and who is too good for us, ala Strain and Baccus

And sometimes these loans become permanent. Paul McGowan is an example of a guy who came to us on loan and who we ended up signing permanently 

Stephen Kelly at Livingston is a case in point. Although they didn’t sign him on loan, he’s been out on loan at Ayr and Ross County and Rangers let him go and he joined Livingston. He was one of their best players last season (ironically, he was actually with Saints youth at a very young boy but opted to join Rangers)

If we can get a youngster on loan from a club and can then sign him permanently then that would be ideal.

We’ve for Nehmani on loan with an option to buy. Great deal!

I see no problem with loans. 

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, NorthBank said:

And what does that say to our own Academy players when we bring in a 20yo to develop for another Club? 

It says to them that they’ll need to up their game considerably if they want to make it at this level.

Charlie Adam was 19 when signed on loan for us all those years ago an instant regular and a stand out.

It shows the youngsters already at the club the standard required. 

[djchapsticks]

11 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

I think loans are a great idea for a club like us.

Modern football is now a mixture of looking at the long term with a core group of players and then short fixes

Getting a player in on loan for a season is no different then having a guy with 1 year left on his contract and who is too good for us, ala Strain and Baccus

And sometimes these loans become permanent. Paul McGowan is an example of a guy who came to us on loan and who we ended up signing permanently 

Stephen Kelly at Livingston is a case in point. Although they didn’t sign him on loan, he’s been out on loan at Ayr and Ross County and Rangers let him go and he joined Livingston. He was one of their best players last season (ironically, he was actually with Saints youth at a very young boy but opted to join Rangers)

If we can get a youngster on loan from a club and can then sign him permanently then that would be ideal.

We’ve for Nehmani on loan with an option to buy. Great deal!

I see no problem with loans. 

I've no qualm whatsoever with loans that include the option to buy. Smart business sense actually.

I've also no real issue with for example, us taking on Mr. E Striker on a 4 month short term deal as it fills a short term gap until Ayunga returns (though I'd obviously prefer an actual signing as I feel we're using minutes to get someone up to match fitness that we'll never get the benefit of)

I don't feel the practice of developing another team's player when there's very little if any prospect of signing them is a great strategy though. I take on board what you say that now and then it results in us pushing towards front of the queue for a player who'd maybe otherwise not be obtainable if he became available for transfer but my preference is always going to be going down the route of looking for promising players that we can get 1-2 good years on and then potentially turn profit on over a player we can get a good year out of and then his parent club reaps the rewards.

[AW saint]

Loan signings have done well for us in the past but I do prefer players to be signed full time. Having our Goalie as a loan signing bothers me more. I always think your keeper should be a signed player. 

We have the rest of this month to go. Lets hope Robbo unearths a couple of signings before the window shuts. 

[NorthBank]

1 hour ago, Captain_Sensible said:

It says to them that they’ll need to up their game considerably if they want to make it at this level.

Charlie Adam was 19 when signed on loan for us all those years ago an instant regular and a stand out.

It shows the youngsters already at the club the standard required. 

If you read my post properly you will know that I was not referring to loans in general but to the loan of Lowry specifically. I have no problems with loans if they suit our requirements. In this case it does not.

Lowry is highly thought of at Sevco and will not end up at St Mirren. If he doesn't make the grade at Ibrox he will be sold for loads of cash elsewhere so there is no long term nor short term benefit to us. Ethan Sutherland is only 17 and Luke Kenny is 19. Both have played first team for us and those are the players we should be developing for short term use and future income.