tamthebam Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 hours ago, Lofarl said: https://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/news/2024/february/27/club-statement--black-knight-football-club/ Calling your consortium "Black Knight" is a bit unwise. Still he could fit into the defence.. Come back Shankland, I'll bite yer legs off 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Tappin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, GreenGray said: I’m not for a second thinking that as a result of this we are suddenly going to turn into “The third force” in Scotland, and success is guaranteed on the back of it, that’s fairytale stuff. BUT, it all sounds positive to me; No debt, no loans from Foley, all sustainable. We retain controlling interest and Foley will likely never become majority shareholder. Sounds like Foley genuinely loves football and views this as an exciting opportunity (obviously there are benefits for Bournemouth too) Blind faith maybe, but bring it on. There's no way anything much changes in the short term, we're too far off the pace. The best bits are the debt to the Gordons is gone, the covid debt is interest free and repayable over 20 years AND is around £1.8m (£90k p/a). There's now £6m coming in that we didn't have before then an attempt to run things sustainably by increasing 'club controlled income' from the assets created by that £6m. Then we go back to Foley when we want to do something huge but get players from the network that we couldn't possibly afford any other way otherwise, in the meantime. Even if that's all that happens, it's a damn sight better than the last few years. Let's start from there and see how it goes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) I've read all the stuff on this that I can find, and I've genuinely tried to approach this with as open a mind as possible. If we take the "Hibs retain full autonomy" stuff at face value, then I can't for the life of me see what Foley is paying for. There's no other part of this deal that would require Foley to make significant investment (or any investment) or that couldn't be achieved by existing models of link-up, i.e. informal tie-ins etc. If I've missed something, I'm happy to have it pointed out. And there's also no credible way for this to become a significant income-generator for him. What is the money for? Minority stake, two guys sitting on the board, £6m investment, but Hibs retain full autonomy? I'm sorry, but that's not a reasonable thing to believe. I don't doubt they've put on a slick PR face and presented well. That's what these folk do. But when you dig in, they still haven't credibly answered the question "Why?". Last night saw a presentation by the Gordons' man and seems to have essentially been a propaganda exercise in favour of the new investors. These folks' job is to be slick, and it seems it's worked. The benefits to the Gordons and Bournemouth seem quite obvious, and there seems to have been a concerted effort to rubbish the idea of Hibs fans having any power at their club. Who and what has driven that? It doesn't feel good. Hibs fans now have less power or prospect of power over their club than they have had for years. My personal take is that the idea that Hibs retain full autonomy is very hard to believe in the absence of any other credible motivation for the investment, and that the idea that ownership is limited at a minority stake is simply a meaningless thing to say as it can be altered at any time and nobody can do anything about it. I'd be amazed if they don't own the club in five years in the rules allow, and I think the rules will allow. And the fans have essentially been sweet-talked out of any influence, and seem fine with that. I get that Hibs fans want to be excited, but this doesn't pass the smell test. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Girth Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 As the old saying goes how do you make a small fortune from football? Spoiler Start with a large one! Use it wisely Hibs -send some of it our way! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoose Rice Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, btb said: As the old saying goes how do you make a small fortune from football? Reveal hidden contents Start with a large one! Use it wisely Hibs -send some of it our way! I don't think they are in it to make money tbh. They just want a successful football club. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Yes, the people from the other side of the world with no connection to Scotland or Edinburgh, who already have several football clubs which they own, are investing money in Hibs purely out of the desire to make the club successful. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Hoose Rice said: I don't think they are in it to make money tbh. They just want a successful football club. Mate, if there's one thing we know definitely isn't the answer to this, it's what you've just posted. What's actually interesting is that once the infrastructure stuff is accounted for, there isn't actually going to be much left for a significant spend on the team. Now, I've never bought into the "They'll get us into Europe and make money" narrative. That just doesn't add up in a risk-reward sense. But what is left isn't even going to really make a dent in whether Hibs can be third or not. A lot of this doesn't add up if you take what you're being sold at face value. None of this is a convincing rationale for the investment. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 12 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: What's actually interesting is that once the infrastructure stuff is accounted for, there isn't actually going to be much left for a significant spend on the team. Theres nothing interesting in this statement, because its complete pish - you probably lifted it from kickback or the financial genius that is Brian McLaughlin on the BBC..................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Leith Green said: Theres nothing interesting in this statement, because its complete pish - you probably lifted it from kickback or the financial genius that is Brian McLaughlin on the BBC..................... I'm taking it from what I read from those at the meeting last night. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 4 hours ago, VincentGuerin said: I'm taking it from what I read from those at the meeting last night. What did they say? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, Leith Green said: What did they say? That the £6m will be split between infrastructure projects and the first team. Looking at the existing levels of income outside the OF, it seems unlikely that this is going to elevate Hibs to some higher level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 @Leith Green What do you think Foley's aim in all this is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: That the £6m will be split between infrastructure projects and the first team. Looking at the existing levels of income outside the OF, it seems unlikely that this is going to elevate Hibs to some higher level. OK, so those words are straight from the Hibs press release. Its far more wide ranging than that - and has already been evidenced. We brought players to the club in January that we simply could not have even looked at before this deal was on the table. We are paying something like 10% of Marcondes Bournemouth salary, and an equally tiny amount of Maolidas Hertha Berlin salary. If you think that these just came out of thin air, you are wrong. Its entirely because of the Black Knights tie up - and its just the beginning on this calibre of player. Do you really think that Hibs board would be trumpeting this deal, going through all the hoops with the SFA just so the £6m the Black Knights paid for some of the Gordons shares is the entirety of the deal ? I have to say, thats pretty funny if you do. 1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said: @Leith Green What do you think Foley's aim in all this is? I dont know, but I struggle to see how its to "asset strip" as the land just isnt worth that much. Perhaps to uplift a poorly performing club and increase the share price? I am not that bothered to be honest, I am a fitba fan - I just want to see us improve on our current poor performance on the pitch, get better players in the door and hopefully win something. n.b. As an aside, we will probably lose tonight, because we still have a poor squad. I expect that to change quite radically in the summer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Leith Green said: OK, so those words are straight from the Hibs press release. Its far more wide ranging than that - and has already been evidenced. We brought players to the club in January that we simply could not have even looked at before this deal was on the table. We are paying something like 10% of Marcondes Bournemouth salary, and an equally tiny amount of Maolidas Hertha Berlin salary. If you think that these just came out of thin air, you are wrong. Its entirely because of the Black Knights tie up - and its just the beginning on this calibre of player. Do you really think that Hibs board would be trumpeting this deal, going through all the hoops with the SFA just so the £6m the Black Knights paid for some of the Gordons shares is the entirety of the deal ? I have to say, thats pretty funny if you do. I dont know, but I struggle to see how its to "asset strip" as the land just isnt worth that much. Perhaps to uplift a poorly performing club and increase the share price? I am not that bothered to be honest, I am a fitba fan - I just want to see us improve on our current poor performance on the pitch, get better players in the door and hopefully win something. n.b. As an aside, we will probably lose tonight, because we still have a poor squad. I expect that to change quite radically in the summer. To be honest, your response just underlines my points in my post above. Consider what you're being asked to believe: Foley is giving Hibs £6m. Hibs are getting long/medium-terms access to players they couldn't have otherwise afforded at a tiny price. BKs are getting two representatives on the board. Yet, we're seriously being asked to believe that Hibs retain full autonomy in how they run their club. Does that genuinely seem feasible to you? If so, I'd ask you on what basis? What benefit is there to Foley in giving Hibs this deal? I don't think it's an issue of asset-stripping. I think this is an issue of who controls your club and what you can do about it. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) FWIW, I'd actually have had less of a concern about this deal if they'd said something like: "Hibs will get £6m, they'll get access to great loan players, we'll improve their infrastructure, and, yes, from time to time you'll need to take players we want to get game time. And you'll have to play them. And we'll control that. Overall, we think it's a fair deal." At least with that there's a rationale. What we're being asked to believe is that Hibs are getting all this for basically nothing. I simply do not believe that, and the lack of willingness to reveal the actual deal is something that should concern fans of any club in a situation like this. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Tappin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Foley wants to build a network. He wants a team in European competition. Gordons want investment but not to lose majority shareholding. Foley finds the cheapest possible route to European competition where his network's players can be showcased. He gives Hibs £6m, which is pennies to him to get what he wants. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Tommy Tappin said: Foley wants to build a network. He wants a team in European competition. Gordons want investment but not to lose majority shareholding. Foley finds the cheapest possible route to European competition where his network's players can be showcased. He gives Hibs £6m, which is pennies to him to get what he wants. That's decent sounding fitba buzzwords, but what does it mean practically? The level of investment dicsussed is unlikely to lead to Hibs finishing third routinely. Third place maintaining group stage football in the coming years is far from a given. Qualifying for groups through play-offs is very tricky. Hibs being the cheapest route to European football to showcase players sounds good. But it's actually quite unlikely to happen regularly, will be relatively expensive to achieve, and it's not clear what the benefits of "showcasing" players there will be. It's either a very high-risk, low-reward strategy (meaning he's not thought this through) or it's not the strategy at all. My money is on the latter there. Not ruling out the former though. In these situations the most likely answer is usually the correct one. It seems pretty likely that your recruitment and team selection are going to be compromised. It's hard to see a better explanation for the investment. It makes a lot more sense than a very vague "showcase in Europe" dream. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Tappin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: That's decent sounding fitba buzzwords, but what does it mean practically? The level of investment dicsussed is unlikely to lead to Hibs finishing third routinely. Third place maintaining group stage football in the coming years is far from a given. Qualifying for groups through play-offs is very tricky. Hibs being the cheapest route to European football to showcase players sounds good. But it's actually quite unlikely to happen regularly, will be relatively expensive to achieve, and it's not clear what the benefits of "showcasing" players there will be. It's either a very high-risk, low-reward strategy (meaning he's not thought this through) or it's not the strategy at all. My money is on the latter there. Not ruling out the former though. In these situations the most likely answer is usually the correct one. It seems pretty likely that your recruitment and team selection are going to be compromised. It's hard to see a better explanation for the investment. It makes a lot more sense than a very vague "showcase in Europe" dream. The £6m is his ante to get the club in his network, not his total/final investment. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Tommy Tappin said: The £6m is his ante to get the club in his network, not his total/final investment. Oh, I'm sure there'll be more money coming. But Hibs are to be sutainable. So, unless we believe Hibs' turnover is going to suddenly massively dwarf Hearts and Aberdeen (and I don't), then it doesn't change the fact that you'll still be doing very well to play group stage football more than one year in five. You're one of the richest clubs in the country as it is and you've never managed this. I find it hard to believe anyone could buy that being the reason for this. Edited February 28 by VincentGuerin 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.