kingjoey Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 2 hours ago, Otis Blue said: Chronologically, aye that would be about the start of it Not "about the start of it", that absolutely was the start of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 5 hours ago, kingjoey said: I was there. You're a jinx, really, aren't you? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 31 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said: You're a jinx, really, aren't you? I've probably seen them win more than I've seen them lose over 60+ years. Probably. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 21 Share Posted February 21 On 19/02/2024 at 17:06, RandomGuy. said: Its the Champions League that fucked Scottish football, IMO.. Fucked a lot more. Many leagues turning into processions, the only thing stopping a Man U/Arsenal duopoly in England was obscene money for Chelsea and Man C. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eednud Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 So what did 6,024 people do in the afternoon of Monday 22 February 1954? Went to Gayfield to see Arbroath lose 1-3 to then Division A Stirling Albion in a Scottish Cup Second Round Replay. Anyone know what the colour of both club’s change strips in this game were? Match report form Arbroath Archive here: https://www.arbroatharchive.co.uk/matchdetails.php?id=258 Seven years earlier Arbroath beat Raith Rovers 5-4 in the Cup Third Round in front of 6,000 on Saturday 22nd. There is a photo in the report but it’s very dark. https://www.arbroatharchive.co.uk/matchdetails.php?id=246 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) On 19/02/2024 at 15:48, Otis Blue said: Chronologically, aye that would be about the start of it. However, the malaise isn't unique to up here - most of the European leagues show the same imbalanced evidence of the results of huge financial disparity across clubs. I worked in Peterhead early 80s and used to watch the Fergie Dons at Pittodrie and was also at Dens when United won the league. Nice to reminisce, but those days will never return sadly - unless the ugly sisters depart for the attraction of seriously big bucks in the hopefully soon to happen European Leagues. There's a few steps in the timeline when the beautiful game turned ugly, both local and further afield factors. Off the top of my head: 1985: Bradford and Heysel tragedies. 1986: Souness arrives at Ibrox 1989: Hillsborough tragedy 1989 - 1992: Break up of the Soviet Union 1992: Guffball and Champions League begins 1993: Bosman ruling 1999: European Cup Winners Cup ends and his merged into UEFA Cup. 2003: Roman Abramovich takeover Chelsea 2008: The Qataris takeover Man City 2009: UEFA Cup rebranded 2010: Russia wins the right to host 2018 World Cup and Qatar wins the right to host a winter World Cup in 2022 I mean there's lots more before, in-between and after but all are included on the path to where we currently are, and I think its now went beyond the stage where it can be saved as the peoples game. Business has stolen the game with the the lie to fans of unlimited success and riches if you can attract major investment or sell players for huge sums of money. Now we're regularly told by the media that we can only expect to compete with those clubs that have similar annual turnover. It's ceased being a competitive sport. Edited February 22 by Bogbrush1903 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otis Blue Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 (edited) 3 hours ago, Bogbrush1903 said: There's a few steps in the timeline when the beautiful game turned ugly, both local and further afield factors. Off the top of my head: 1985: Bradford and Heysel tragedies. 1986: Souness arrives at Ibrox 1989: Hillsborough tragedy 1989 - 1992: Break up of the Soviet Union 1992: Guffball and Champions League begins 1993: Bosman ruling 1999: European Cup Winners Cup ends and his merged into UEFA Cup. 2003: Roman Abramovich takeover Chelsea 2008: The Qataris takeover Man City 2009: UEFA Cup rebranded 2010: Russia wins the right to host 2018 World Cup and Qatar wins the right to host a winter World Cup in 2022 I mean there's lots more before, in-between and after but all are included on the path to where we currently are, and I think its now went beyond the stage where it can be saved as the peoples game. Business has stolen the game with the the lie to fans of unlimited success and riches if you can attract major investment or sell players for huge sums of money. Now we're regularly told by the media that we can only expect to compete with those clubs that have similar annual turnover. It's ceased being a competitive sport. Absolutely this. At the elite level football (as with some other sports) is now a commercially driven business first and a sporting competition second. The lack of real competition is evident across many of the European leagues now and I think it is only time before we see a two tier sport where the elite and financially entitled clubs break away to compete within their own rich sphere and the rump in each nation occupy their own national leagues where financial entitlement (although still existing but to a lesser extent) becomes less of an influence and real competition starts once again to flourish. Edited February 22 by Otis Blue 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghead ranter Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 Former Son Ian Wallace 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
microdave Posted February 22 Share Posted February 22 On 25/01/2024 at 21:06, Boghead ranter said: @microdave? I've finally got round to putting opposition managers in the archive. It's going to take a fair bit of time though. I've spent about 90 minutes this evening and I've only managed Aberdeen and Airdrie. But I'll chip away at it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urban Spaceman Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 22/02/2024 at 06:53, Bogbrush1903 said: There's a few steps in the timeline when the beautiful game turned ugly, both local and further afield factors. There is also times when the "supporters" of the game are themselves to blame for the change being forced on them: 1980: Old Firm Riot 1985: Heysel Society change, for better or worse (mostly worse) the game has changed with it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Urban Spaceman said: There is also times when the "supporters" of the game are themselves to blame for the change being forced on them: 1980: Old Firm Riot 1985: Heysel Society change, for better or worse (mostly worse) the game has changed with it. The Old Firm riot sparked change for the betterment (in my view) of Scottish football, in as far as fans were no longer coming into stadium with carry outs a bag of tins or a bottles of wine. I mentioned the Heysel which also initiated improvements with regards the Taylor Report and further afield as far as big crowds are no longer rountinely placed in dilapidated, ill-equipped stadiums. However, with regards the Heysel disaster, the Liverpool fans charging definitely initiated the deaths but don't underestimate the condition of the Heysel itself played in the the disaster...there was low flimsy wire fence segregating the Liverpool supporters from the Juventus family section, bits of masonry lying about, and the wall that eventually collapsed not fit for purpose. The Saturday before, the Main Stand at the Valley Parade had went up in flames because of the condition of the wooden stand and the build up of rubbish underneath. Consequently, there were troublemakers during this period amongst supporters but the Thatcher Government did nothing to force or encourage clubs to improve the environment where supporters went to watch their club. You sound a bit like the former Minister of Sport, Colin Moynihan, who also liked to suggest that all supporters were to blame for the actions of a minority. Edited February 23 by Bogbrush1903 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 22/02/2024 at 06:53, Bogbrush1903 said: There's a few steps in the timeline when the beautiful game turned ugly, both local and further afield factors. Off the top of my head: 1985: Bradford and Heysel tragedies. 1986: Souness arrives at Ibrox 1989: Hillsborough tragedy 1989 - 1992: Break up of the Soviet Union 1992: Guffball and Champions League begins 1993: Bosman ruling 1999: European Cup Winners Cup ends and his merged into UEFA Cup. 2003: Roman Abramovich takeover Chelsea 2008: The Qataris takeover Man City 2009: UEFA Cup rebranded 2010: Russia wins the right to host 2018 World Cup and Qatar wins the right to host a winter World Cup in 2022 I'd add 1997 when being a champion ceased to be a requirement to play in the Champions' League. 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Interesting crowds. That’s what happens in an eighteen team top division. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 On 19/02/2024 at 17:06, RandomGuy. said: Its the Champions League that fucked Scottish football, IMO. The money involved allowed Celtic/Rangers to enter a different stratosphere to other Scottish clubs, and they were already ahead financially as it was. Scottish teams virtually as a whole got desperate, fucked themselves with Setanta trying to claw back some of the gap, and now are stuck in the gutter forever more. Maybees aye , maybees naw ! Thankfully Rangers entering the different stratosphere was not plans flying ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ewanandmoreagain Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 18 minutes ago, kingjoey said: Interesting crowds. That’s what happens in an eighteen team top division. Very Interesting ! You got 35,000 ! Impressive ! Was that Don's supporters or the others ? Only 24,000 at Parkhead ! The rest are Edited February 23 by Ewanandmoreagain 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 1 hour ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: Very Interesting ! You got 35,000 ! Impressive ! Was that Don's supporters or the others ? Only 24,000 at Parkhead ! The rest are We were going for the league and 11 points ahead of Rangers in February when it was only two points for a win, so mostly Aberdeen fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluearmyfaction Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 When having a mooch around and you see MONTROSE SENSATION, one surely has to investigate further. This was the origin story... (Aberdeen Press & Journal, 9 December 1931) 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogbrush1903 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 hours ago, kingjoey said: Interesting crowds. That’s what happens in an eighteen team top division. Can we take these attendances as gospel though? Wasn't it a 50/50 split in those days and the home team would downplay the official attendance so they didn't have to give up so much cash to the opposition. Falkirk's Roxburgh netted I see 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamthebam Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, bluearmyfaction said: When having a mooch around and you see MONTROSE SENSATION, one surely has to investigate further. This was the origin story... (Aberdeen Press & Journal, 9 December 1931) How much do you want this season- I reckon we could have a whip round and stretch to a fiver. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 12 hours ago, Ewanandmoreagain said: Only 24,000 at Parkhead ! I think I'm right in saying that even the all conquering Celtic side of 1966/67 averaged about 31,000 that season. The previous season, they averaged just 24,000. Two years earlier, they averaged 18,000, with Hearts, Hibs and Dundee not too far behind. That's also a big factor in the separation that emerged between the OF and the rest. Their gates tended to be bigger than the other sides', but not massively so until the all seated, season ticket era. Changes in consumer behaviour have played a part. Edited February 24 by Monkey Tennis 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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