boulderdomb Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 This BBC article http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/43204326, coaches in Scotland are calling for full time referee's in Scotland. I see some issues with this: 1) Since we can't afford Goal Line Technology, how can we afford to make referee's go full time? 2) If it was premiership only (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/30754145) £840 fee basically is full time. The problem is, premiership referee's in Scotland also do Championship games for £240. A restructure would probably be required in the categories or an increase in senior referee's for this to happen. 3) The second problem being, what incentive are there for the current referee's to go full time for the same rates as most have full time jobs such as being a solicitor - I know what I'd be saying if the SFA attempted to make me full time quitting my full time job for the same rates. 4) Should we expect referee's to be of EPL standard even though besides maybe Celtic our clubs aren't of that standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5) Refs quite regularly make a rip roaring c**t of it in England despite being full time refs 6) Maybe just let them come out and explain their decisions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santheman Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 I think 40k a year for training a few hours a day and officiating for probably a max of 2 games a week is no bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boulderdomb Posted February 27, 2018 Author Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 minute ago, santheman said: I think 40k a year for training a few hours a day and officiating for probably a max of 2 games a week is no bad You're right, it isn't too bad at all however please see point 3. 3 minutes ago, Ross. said: 5) Refs quite regularly make a rip roaring c**t of it in England despite being full time refs 6) Maybe just let them come out and explain their decisions Having the comms kit on microphone like rugby could be an option although could you imagine the seethe if someone honestly didn't know the reason like Jon Moss a few weeks ago in an OF game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 3 minutes ago, boulderdomb said: Having the comms kit on microphone like rugby could be an option although could you imagine the seethe if someone honestly didn't know the reason like Jon Moss a few weeks ago in an OF game? I can imagine the reaction from whichever side was on the receiving end of the shite decision, aye. The main problem for me in the context of the "Refereeing problem" is that they seem overly protected by the authorities to the extent that people do genuinely believe it's because they are trying to hide things. Make them explain shite decisions, give them the freedom to admit their mistakes, and show what sort of accountability they have when it comes to making a c**t of it. It would take a lot of pressure off the refs I think, and would also let out a fair amount of the hot air that their decisions generate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northboy Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 58 minutes ago, Ross. said: The main problem for me in the context of the "Refereeing problem" is that they seem overly protected by the authorities to the extent that people do genuinely believe it's because they are trying to hide things. Make them explain shite decisions, give them the freedom to admit their mistakes, and show what sort of accountability they have when it comes to making a c**t of it. It would take a lot of pressure off the refs I think, and would also let out a fair amount of the hot air that their decisions generate. A few years ago the SFA and referees tried to introduce a system where referees could explain their decisions. Great in theory until clubs objected that any statements or discussions in the media could influence or pre-judge any appeals they might me making. It didn't last very long. It would be great to hear referees opinions but I can't see any way of doing it without them getting shafted by pundits and the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyaccie Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Irrespective of full or part time status referees are still going to get a hard time, by becoming full time doesn't make you exempt overnight from human error.The laws of the game have become so subjective over the last 25 years or so, it's well nigh impossible for a ref to get through 90 minutes to the satisfaction of both managers and sets of supporters. All of the laws are now basically open to individual refs interpretation of the laws, the discontent arises due to the fluidity of our refs interpretation. One ref officiating in a match may see a challenge in the jpenalty area as being a legitimate attempt by the defender to win the ball, in the same incident both his assistants and the fourth official could be of the opinion it merited the award of a penalty, i for one would never have been tempted to become a ref as I feel it's a job which should be advertised with gvt health warnings attached.I don't know if reverting to the laws I was aware of in my early days of watching football would help, (e.g.) offside is offside irrespective of interference and hand ball is handball irrespective of intent, but surely the governing bodies need to address these issues asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 7 minutes ago, Northboy said: A few years ago the SFA and referees tried to introduce a system where referees could explain their decisions. Great in theory until clubs objected that any statements or discussions in the media could influence or pre-judge any appeals they might me making. It didn't last very long. It would be great to hear referees opinions but I can't see any way of doing it without them getting shafted by pundits and the media. This: "freedom to admit their mistakes" almost certainly = getting shafted even more than now. Every word they said would be dissected, analysed against multiple slow motion zoom-camera replays, 'disproven' and so forth. It would only really succeed if cases of misunderstanding or where something unusual/technical has happened (which is what SFA used to do on their website IIRC). As noted it'd take big £ investment to make full-time refereeing appealing through parity with players salaries or professions. Also you'd need a bigger pool or it's the same 6 refs every week? Really the question is "how much if at all will decisions improve if referees go full-time instead of part-time?" and "how will that weigh-up against the extra cost?". It may not actually stand the analysis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 1 hour ago, boulderdomb said: Having the comms kit on microphone like rugby could be an option although could you imagine the seethe if someone honestly didn't know the reason like Jon Moss a few weeks ago in an OF game? It would be unbroadcastable due to swearing of players and their abuse of refs being picked-up... Even in the Six Nations you now get BBC commentators apologising for obscenities most ties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 2 hours ago, boulderdomb said: You're right, it isn't too bad at all however please see point 3. Having the comms kit on microphone like rugby could be an option although could you imagine the seethe if someone honestly didn't know the reason like Jon Moss a few weeks ago in an OF game? You haven't read the other thread have you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7-2 Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 Wanting refs to explain their decisions is just the media looking for more ways to fill their 24 hour coverage. 'I gave offside as I thought it was offside' or 'I didn't give a free kick as I didn't think it was a free kick' is mind blowing stuff. They wouldn't get the 'I gave offside as I can't stand these b*****ds' or 'I disallowed the goal as I had the game on as a draw at the bookies' they're desperate for. It's a nonsense call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted February 27, 2018 Share Posted February 27, 2018 5 hours ago, 7-2 said: Wanting refs to explain their decisions is just the media looking for more ways to fill their 24 hour coverage. 'I gave offside as I thought it was offside' or 'I didn't give a free kick as I didn't think it was a free kick' is mind blowing stuff. They wouldn't get the 'I gave offside as I can't stand these b*****ds' or 'I disallowed the goal as I had the game on as a draw at the bookies' they're desperate for. It's a nonsense call Exactly this. If pundits were even half good at their job, they'd be able to look at the decision, look at the incident and join the dots. 99% of the time they'll get precisely what a referee would say ("I gave a penalty because I saw the ball strike the arm and believed it to be deliberate" - just to be topical). Having the referee come out and say it isn't going to change the decision. It's also not the first time we've heard managers saying a referee apologised to them for an incorrect decision. Why do we need that to be done in public? It won't exactly bring about more apologies or admissions of being incorrect - a referee that isn't minded to apologise privately is hardly going to do it in public just because you shove a camera in his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 The refs are c***s and most are making more than the median player which is a fucked up situation if you think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 21 minutes ago, Jim McLean's Ghost said: The refs are c***s and most are making more than the median player which is a fucked up situation if you think about it. Why? The median player in this league is utter dross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue92 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I don't think having the refs come out after the game to explain decisions will help at all. I hate refs at times but i really dont envy them. Fair enough they have chosen to do it but it must be difficult these days, the microscope is ran over every detail. It also doesnt help that most football players are fly b*****ds and will make substantial effort to con the ref. Once a decision is made, is hearing a guy explain it after the match really going to help? In fact i would probably say it will probably enrage fans further. I accept there is no money for it but the only way to weed out mistakes is to implement the available technologies, human error is always going to happen regardless of salary. The fact that rules are down to interpretation muddies the water further. I think few refs may see the benefits of changing their arrogant persona though, some of them are right c***s and you almost rejoice when they make an arse of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestersKTID Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Why not just chuck all scottish refs and fly in the Israeli refs again. They were class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 3 hours ago, Blue92 said: I don't think having the refs come out after the game to explain decisions will help at all. I hate refs at times but i really dont envy them. Fair enough they have chosen to do it but it must be difficult these days, the microscope is ran over every detail. It also doesnt help that most football players are fly b*****ds and will make substantial effort to con the ref. Once a decision is made, is hearing a guy explain it after the match really going to help? In fact i would probably say it will probably enrage fans further. I accept there is no money for it but the only way to weed out mistakes is to implement the available technologies, human error is always going to happen regardless of salary. The fact that rules are down to interpretation muddies the water further. I think few refs may see the benefits of changing their arrogant persona though, some of them are right c***s and you almost rejoice when they make an arse of something. Most authoritative figures tend to have a persona of arrogance about them. It helps them to deal with the utter wanks that they come across in their line of work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Making them full time isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference. The first thing that should be changed is the culture of players surrounding or mouthing off at the ref. Remember when Griffiths was booked (quite rightly) for taking ages to get off the pitch last season at Pittodrie. He proceeded to tell the red to f*** off and I think called him a f****** b******. Get him off for that. I know footballers are thick but if they were to get booked every time they mouthed off at the ref they’d soon stop it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 21 hours ago, 7-2 said: Wanting refs to explain their decisions is just the media looking for more ways to fill their 24 hour coverage. 'I gave offside as I thought it was offside' or 'I didn't give a free kick as I didn't think it was a free kick' is mind blowing stuff. They wouldn't get the 'I gave offside as I can't stand these b*****ds' or 'I disallowed the goal as I had the game on as a draw at the bookies' they're desperate for. It's a nonsense call Yeah, this for me. I'm not really sure what exactly getting the referees to talk to the media achieves. His linesman gets an offside call wrong in this weekends County vs Thistle game, what's he going to say when asked? Oh aye, I knew it wasn't, but I just fucking hate Thistle? He'll just say that at the time he believed it was. Substitute offside for any decision. I don't think our referees are particularly good, but I don't think any of them go out to deliberately get things wrong. They call things the way they see them when they see them. So what exactly does getting them to talk really achieve? Oh, and full time won't really make much difference either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topsider Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 Our referees aren’t very good compared to who?English refs? Nope, they get just as much wrong.Spanish/Italian refs? Not for me. They infuriate me with giving fouls for every single slightest contact. More stoppages than sodding rugby!Or French? Like the daft c*** who karate kicks players?Maybe we think our refs aren’t very good because their jobs are f***ing impossible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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