soy, vegans, muscles & male health

[Booker-T]

It seems there is no clear clinical evidence that suggests soy protein lowers testosterone levels or creates any estrogen-like feminizing effects in men. Well, that's what the internet said, but I was looking for the thoughts and observations from P&B's thinkers and scholars on the subject of whether reliance on soy protein is detrimental to maintaining manly hormone levels.

 

[ICTChris]

Our friend is  vegan/vegetarian (she tries to be vegan but if there aren't options she'll eat veggie food) and she came to stay with us at the weekend.  Whenever she's over or when we go on holiday together she tends to have to stick to a couple of options so this time I decided to investigate the best vegan places in Edinburgh and we went to one on Saturday night - Harmonium in Leith. 

I was expecting it to be OK but it turned out to be excellent.  i had harissa roasted cauliflower to start with, which was great (I like cauliflower and harissa so it was a no-brainer) and for my main meal I had a seitan burger, which was the first time I'd ever eaten it and I found it flavoursome.  It had a good consistency as well, on the rare occasions I've eaten vegetarian or vegan meat substitutes in the past they've been a funny texture, this was better.  For dessert I had cheesecake with vanilla ice-cream, which was fantastic.

I couldn't live on this stuff though, I love meat and dairy and eggs.  From what I've read about soy some studies link it to lower sperm counts, others say there's no impact.  A lot of this stuff is bro-science anyway, people looking for evidence to back up what they already believe and ignoring anything that contradicts them.  the only thing I really eat soy in is when my wife cooks steak, she marinades them in soy sauce and garlic - delicious.  Our vegan friend doesn't like soy products, except for tofu, she has oat milk etc.

[bob the tank]

I'm not vegan but I haven't eaten meat for 30 years to no Ill effect in manliness department

[NotThePars]

Paul Joseph Watson hawks brain pills that have soy in them. Love that so much.

[ICTChris]

8 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Paul Joseph Watson hawks brain pills that have soy in them. Love that so much.

Soy pilling the libtards.

[NotThePars]

Soy pilling the libtards.

Ingesting soy to trigger the feminists. ????[emoji1305]

[tamthebam]

Think of the advantages- not having to buy razors anymore and having your own set of chebs to play with. 

[ICTChris]

16 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Ingesting soy to trigger the feminists. 

 

Plan to destroy feminism

1 - Consume so much soy testes shrivel up and become vagina

2 - Become woman.

3 - Say feminism is bad

4 - Victory.

[Rizzo]

19 hours ago, ICTChris said:

Our friend is  vegan/vegetarian (she tries to be vegan but if there aren't options she'll eat veggie food) and she came to stay with us at the weekend.  Whenever she's over or when we go on holiday together she tends to have to stick to a couple of options so this time I decided to investigate the best vegan places in Edinburgh and we went to one on Saturday night - Harmonium in Leith. 

I was expecting it to be OK but it turned out to be excellent.  i had harissa roasted cauliflower to start with, which was great (I like cauliflower and harissa so it was a no-brainer) and for my main meal I had a seitan burger, which was the first time I'd ever eaten it and I found it flavoursome.  It had a good consistency as well, on the rare occasions I've eaten vegetarian or vegan meat substitutes in the past they've been a funny texture, this was better.  For dessert I had cheesecake with vanilla ice-cream, which was fantastic.

I couldn't live on this stuff though, I love meat and dairy and eggs.  From what I've read about soy some studies link it to lower sperm counts, others say there's no impact.  A lot of this stuff is bro-science anyway, people looking for evidence to back up what they already believe and ignoring anything that contradicts them.  the only thing I really eat soy in is when my wife cooks steak, she marinades them in soy sauce and garlic - delicious.  Our vegan friend doesn't like soy products, except for tofu, she has oat milk etc.

Oat milk is about the nicest milk substitute I've managed to find. I don't eat dairy or meat but still eat eggs as I have a few ex-battery chickens and they fire a fews eggs out every day. 

Think the thing about soy reducing fertility is just a myth. I remember reading about it when I decided to ditch dairy to try and improve my health a bit. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Rizzo

[tamthebam]

Could I start drinking soy milk, be a grumpy c*nt at work and get away with it by blaming it on my PMT? 

[Miguel Sanchez]

If I start drinking soy milk, then stop, will my testosterone increase sufficiently to be able to grow a beard?

[Millions]

On 02/04/2018 at 18:30, Booker-T said:

It seems there is no clear clinical evidence that suggests soy protein lowers testosterone levels or creates any estrogen-like feminizing effects in men. Well, that's what the internet said, but I was looking for the thoughts and observations from P&B's thinkers and scholars on the subject of whether reliance on soy protein is detrimental to maintaining manly hormone levels.

 

Unless you shovel tons of it into you then no, no lowering of testosterone.

Incidentally, testosterone replacement therapy should be a mainstay of western health in the older gentleman. The UK is miles behind on this

[coprolite]

On 02/04/2018 at 18:30, Booker-T said:

It seems there is no clear clinical evidence that suggests soy protein lowers testosterone levels or creates any estrogen-like feminizing effects in men. Well, that's what the internet said, but I was looking for the thoughts and observations from P&B's thinkers and scholars on the subject of whether reliance on soy protein is detrimental to maintaining manly hormone levels.

 

Seems a strange question.

presumably you have seen something to suggest that it is detrimental and you’re not just asking on the off chance?

This sounds like a good old fashioned colonial theory about why the orientals often can’t grow a proper beard.

[Booker-T]

On 4/3/2018 at 23:36, Millions said:

Unless you shovel tons of it into you then no, no lowering of testosterone.

Incidentally, testosterone replacement therapy should be a mainstay of western health in the older gentleman. The UK is miles behind on this

well, currently I'm a daytime vegan - mostly motivated by environmental concerns with an evening meat and veg meal.

What i was doing was using pea and brown rice proteins in the daytime, but to mix it up I have incorporated some (organic) tofu meals over the past 6 months and there has been a gradual softening of the chest and belly since (not tits and love handles, but still a change in the wrong direction). Anyway, hardly a scientific study but in my head, the soy's caused it.

I am considering going full time vegan and can't see how I can do this without a soy reliance. What I want to hear is "there is no issue with soy, get on with it" - but only if that is true.

[dorlomin]

5 minutes ago, Booker-T said:

I am considering going full time vegan and can't see how I can do this without a soy reliance. What I want to hear is "there is no issue with soy, get on with it" - but only if that is true.

The most important thing is to ensure that over a day you balance your intake to include all the essential amino acids and get a good dose of calcium and iron. In terms of iron you will have to have a higher intake of iron than a meat eater as meat has "hemeiron" that is more easily absorbed but its no huge deal. 

Either quinoa or mixing rice and beans should see you most of the way on n terms of having all the amino acids if you dont want to take soya (that also has them). But you should get a basic understanding your micro-nutrients and ensure you are hitting them.  That said the usual diet of processed foods often misses essentials micro-nutrients. 

In terms of issues with soya, it creates precursors to oestrogen and there was a lot of speculation that it harms testosterone but many recent studies seem to suggest it has little effect. More usefully there are a few pure vegan body builders and other strength sports athletes who do not seem to be affected. 

 

As above and as with any specific diet you have to take a bit more care than generally eating what ever comes along though on the whole its a lot healthier as you do focus on what you eat. 

[StevenWatsonsy]

I found this thread during research. I wonder if a bodybuilder can be a vegan and how he replaces animal products. To be honest, I think it's incredible. Vegans probably eat a lot of sports food (which is often not natural) to replenish the body's supply of substances necessary for heavy training. As for me, a few months ago I took steroids to improve my performance and I got a lot of side effects. To avoid this, I found an alternative to steroids and decided to try Sarms. So, I found this article https://steroidcycle.org/testosterone-cycle/ where I've read some info about it. If you have some recommendations on this topic, pls share them with me.

Edited June 21, 2020 by StevenWatsonsy

[jamamafegan]

This is weird, I was talking about this very subject with my gf last night. Told her I was going to start drinking Alpro soy “protein” milk in my porridge instead of dairy - to which she then say jokingly said you’ll have no sperm left. That kinda put me off tbh. I looked into it and the evidence suggesting that it might lower testosterone levels was enough for me. No thanks.

I’m going to give oat milk a go once I’ve run out of the dairy milk I’ve got. My only issue with oat milk is that there is less protein in it than dairy milk, not much less but still not ideal for making #gainz

[Shandon Par]

18 minutes ago, StevenWatsonsy said:

I found this thread during research. I wonder if a bodybuilder can be a vegan and how he replaces animal products.

Why does it have to be a he? Ladies can lift weights too. And they can wear vegan trainers. 

[throbber]

5 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

This is weird, I was talking about this very subject with my gf last night. Told her I was going to start drinking Alpro soy “protein” milk in my porridge instead of dairy - to which she then say jokingly said you’ll have no sperm left. That kinda put me off tbh. I looked into it and the evidence suggesting that it might lower testosterone levels was enough for me. No thanks.

I’m going to give oat milk a go once I’ve run out of the dairy milk I’ve got. My only issue with oat milk is that there is less protein in it than dairy milk, not much less but still not ideal for making #gainz

If it’s just in your porridge I doubt it will make much difference, it’s only if you regularly have glasses of milk.

[craigkillie]

14 minutes ago, jamamafegan said:

This is weird, I was talking about this very subject with my gf last night. Told her I was going to start drinking Alpro soy “protein” milk in my porridge instead of dairy - to which she then say jokingly said you’ll have no sperm left. That kinda put me off tbh. I looked into it and the evidence suggesting that it might lower testosterone levels was enough for me. No thanks.

I’m going to give oat milk a go once I’ve run out of the dairy milk I’ve got. My only issue with oat milk is that there is less protein in it than dairy milk, not much less but still not ideal for making #gainz

I've been vegetarian for nearly two years and don't eat a lot of dairy and was still able to successfully impregnate my wife. Make of that what you will.