The Ultimate Super Ayr Thread

[Nightmare]

5 minutes ago, callum-ayr said:

Does the word black have to be taken out every aspect of the club?  "Black and White TV"?  Could the be construed that both black and white fans are separate?  "We're black, we're white, we're fucking dynamite Super Ayr" song, has that to be binned as well?  I am not saying people don't interpret different reasons behind the song, but to label it as downright racist is wrong.  I don't really sing it, but to downright label those who do as racists is a bit nuts IMO.

Surely you can distinguish between the use of the term "black and white" (literally the club's colours; and with no racist connotations) to "black b*****d" (a phrase which is often blatantly used in a racist manner)?

[itzdrk]

3 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Would be quite the statistic if we go 3 for 3 with forwards from down South who play in that jobber league. Considering goalscorers are like gold dust and everyone is clamouring for one you'd think the law of averages we're due a dud at some point. 

Dipo over Tomi for me easily and I think even over Shankland, possibly. Tough call. 

We did sign Samuel Kenneth Ashford.  

Easy agree that Akinyemi is the better player than Adeloye, would require a really long hard think on the Shankland bit though.  

[Richey Edwards]

5 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Dipo over Tomi for me easily and I think even over Shankland, possibly. Tough call. 

Always said Shankland is the best striker I've seen play for us but Dipo would also be up there. Both absolutely fantastic players for us.

[D'Jaffo]

I think Shankland has been away so long that even I have forgotten just how good he was. He played in a better team with an outrageously good strike partner. 

Wish Dipo had gotten a chance to play with the Moffat that Shankland did. 

[callum-ayr]

3 minutes ago, Coollestersmoothe said:

There's a world of difference between referring to the colour black which is literally just a colour on the colour chart and half of the teams strip, and singing the words "black b*****ds". Whether it was a colloquial reference to hygiene in the past or not, it's a pretty loaded phrase. And for any player not up on heir Ayrshire-isms it's probably pretty disturbing to hear it. It's the sonic equivalent of throwing a banana skin on the park. The tune needs binned. 

That's all down to how people want to perceive any term of phrase.  I don't sing it anymore, just don't think you can label anyone who wants to as definitely racist or it is a racist song.  It isn't the same as throwing a banana skin on the park, that's just ridiculous.

2 minutes ago, Nightmare said:

Surely you can distinguish between the use of the term "black and white" (literally the club's colours; and with no racist connotations) to "black b*****d" (a phrase which is often blatantly used in a racist manner)?

Surely that's down to anyone own interpretation, like everyone's own interpretation of what they think the song means?  When I was at school it was a blackboard, now it is a chalkboard, was the use of blackboard racist?

[AUcal]

It's a hard one between Shankland and Dipo. Those two and Moffat are head and shoulders above any other forwards we have had since I've been at games. 

I would maybe tend towards Shankland, but as others have had said he did have the Moffat, Moore, McDaid, Forrest combinations which were a joy to watch.

[super_carson]

10 minutes ago, Coollestersmoothe said:

There's a world of difference between referring to the colour black which is literally just a colour on the colour chart and half of the teams strip, and singing the words "black b*****ds". Whether it was a colloquial reference to hygiene in the past or not, it's a pretty loaded phrase. And for any player not up on heir Ayrshire-isms it's probably pretty disturbing to hear it. It's the sonic equivalent of throwing a banana skin on the park. The tune needs binned. 

Absolutely.  People need to accept that, while the song is not racist in itself and is based on Scots use of the word 'black' and not ethnicity, there is a racist connotation with that phrase by modern standards.  It's dated and some of our support need to understand that associations with words and phrases change over time.  Unfortunately there is a mornic element in our support who probably continue to sing that particular line with gusto because they revel in the controversy of it.  

Edited July 27, 2023 by super_carson

[itzdrk]

Mind we signed Afolabi and he was greeted near instantly outside the ground by folk singing about 'black b*****ds' before getting onto the bus.  

[AUcal]

Just now, itzdrk said:

Mind we signed Afolabi and he was greeted near instantly outside the ground by folk singing about 'black b*****ds' before getting onto the bus.  

Aye. That was a complete riddy. 

The reluctance to move past that shite is infuriating to me. It's just a word in a song, fucking change it to literally anything that's not "black b*****ds".

Why they so keen to keep using that word? Embarrassing.

[UpInTheAyr]

14 minutes ago, itzdrk said:

We did sign Samuel Kenneth Ashford.  

Easy agree that Akinyemi is the better player than Adeloye, would require a really long hard think on the Shankland bit though.  

Was Ashford signed as a forward though, I've never regarded him as such always as a winger.

[Hawk89]

1 minute ago, AuAl said:

Aye. That was a complete riddy. 

The reluctance to move past that shite is infuriating to me. It's just a word in a song, fucking change it to literally anything that's not "black b*****ds".

Why they so keen to keep using that word? Embarrassing.

Part of it is probably people so entrenched in their views they'll never change and, another part is probably that thing we all do as teenagers where someone says you shouldn't do that and the "cool" thing to do is automatically go against. It is the same whenever Ayr Troop Major is brought up, you have some proper pea brain fury about not being able to sing it. 

[UpInTheAyr]

13 minutes ago, D'Jaffo said:

I think Shankland has been away so long that even I have forgotten just how good he was. He played in a better team with an outrageously good strike partner. 

Wish Dipo had gotten a chance to play with the Moffat that Shankland did. 

Wish Dipo had gotten the chance to play with Forrest on the wing and even someone like McDaid, think thhose type of players would have suited him more over Moff.

[super_carson]

8 minutes ago, AuAl said:

It's a hard one between Shankland and Dipo. Those two and Moffat are head and shoulders above any other forwards we have had since I've been at games. 

I would maybe tend towards Shankland, but as others have had said he did have the Moffat, Moore, McDaid, Forrest combinations which were a joy to watch.

Could it be argued that Dipo achieved a comparable goalscoring record to Shankland with less support?  Imagine Shankland and Dipo with prime Moff playing behind them....

[Coollestersmoothe]

The intention of the song isn't to be racist. The folk who sing it, I don't think, are racist..If i implied that then i was in error there. The phrase "black b*****ds" is though. 

Aye, the tune is historically about washing and perceptions of hygiene.  But if you're Frankie Musonda - A guy who grew up in London and i'd wager doesn't know the nuances of South West Scotland lingo - you're not thinking that every time the SRE comes out with 'black b*****ds', "it's cool, they're just talking about not showering often". You're probably deeply troubled by that and wondering why your employer allows it and why the folk who are there to support you are singing it. 

But aye, perception is the big thing here. The phrase here  in ayrshire means one thing,  but to the rest of the globe it means something totally different and massively offensive. If 99.99% of the planet would perceive that phrase as being overtly racist, then it's probabaly time to get rid. 

[itzdrk]

3 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Was Ashford signed as a forward though, I've never regarded him as such always as a winger.

The club has deleted his signing from the website so I can't go on what they say but Ayrshire Post had him as a striker on signing (which IMO is basically the same thing anyway). 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/ayrshire/ayr-united-striker-sam-ashford-26090098.amp

 

[eez-eh]

11 minutes ago, callum-ayr said:

That's all down to how people want to perceive any term of phrase.  I don't sing it anymore, just don't think you can label anyone who wants to as definitely racist or it is a racist song.  It isn't the same as throwing a banana skin on the park, that's just ridiculous.

Surely that's down to anyone own interpretation, like everyone's own interpretation of what they think the song means?  When I was at school it was a blackboard, now it is a chalkboard, was the use of blackboard racist?

These same people who seem to not think it’s racist have had people point out to them many times how the song would be perceived by anyone unfamiliar with it. But they continue to sing it.

As others have said a chunk of it will be wee bams who think the controversy is hilarious and enjoy winding people up about it. They’re not oblivious to it like you’re suggesting.

[AUcal]

Just now, Hawk89 said:

Part of it is probably people so entrenched in their views they'll never change and, another part is probably that thing we all do as teenagers where someone says you shouldn't do that and the "cool" thing to do is automatically go against. It is the same whenever Ayr Troop Major is brought up, you have some proper pea brain fury about not being able to sing it. 

Yeh, you're probably right. 

Aye, while we're at it, Ayr Troop Major and the HIV song are also embarrassing and shameful. They're less frequent now but it's still heard. What's most disappointing is the number of young folk that will join in - being lead by the usual suspects. Depressing. 

[Hawk89]

24 minutes ago, UpInTheAyr said:

Would be quite the statistic if we go 3 for 3 with forwards from down South who play in that jobber league. Considering goalscorers are like gold dust and everyone is clamouring for one you'd think the law of averages we're due a dud at some point. 

Dipo over Tomi for me easily and I think even over Shankland, possibly. Tough call. 

 

I would worry if we go 3/3 this year that other clubs will start sniffing around and trying to hoover up the talent from those leagues, we have a good thing going so far though and long may it continue. We are potentially showing 2 very different pathways for players this year, which will make us an attractive proposition in future windows.

The first being obvious as above, fairly young player comes to the clubs develops and has a decent season then has the option to move on. The other being the McGeady project, if successful it could open the doors to alot of veterans viewing us as a real opportunity to stay in the game post playing career whilst we gain their experience on and off the park. 

[Bruadair]

5 minutes ago, super_carson said:

Absolutely.  People need to accept that, while the song is not racist in itself and is based on Scots use of the word 'black' and not ethnicity, there is a racist connotation with that phrase by modern standards.  It's dated and some of our support need to understand that associations with words and phrases change over time.  Unfortunately there is a mornic element in our support who probably continue to sing that particular line with gusto because they revel in the controversy of it.  

Within predominantly the West of Scotland the word Black is often associated / directed at something that is dirty or someone with poor hygiene... however there have been complaints from other supporters of our fans singing racist songs... when locally it is not associated as such... it is now time to ditch the song or substitute the phrase Black Bast'ds with something along the lines of Dirty Bast'ds...even more now that club is recruiting coloured players... who themselves could interpret the song as having racist tones...

[BukyOHare]

Dipo alongside Templeton and Sludden.

The thought of that alone brightens up a dreich Thursday morning.