Scary Bear Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Is there any country that doesn’t have a national debt? I’d imagine not and I’d imagine all thinking people would consider it something we should have an interest in. I would have thought that so long as we can service it without too much damage to the economy. Of course none of that really negates my point about PFI.So if we can service nearly 2 trillion debt what does the small beer of a few PFI contracts matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 2 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: So if we can service nearly 2 trillion debt what does the small beer of a few PFI contracts matter? It matters in that it transfers wealth to the richest. So you have the double whammy of the government having less to spend on services and the richest having extra money to buy assets they can use as a source of rent. Until MMT is recognised we are stuck with the current nonsense monetary policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: So if we can service nearly 2 trillion debt what does the small beer of a few PFI contracts matter? We can debate about the national debt and the merits or otherwise of the expenditure that has contributed and is contributing to it. I would support some of that expenditure and oppose other elements. In the same way I can be critical of how certain capital projects were financed. In the same way it doesn’t matter how personally well off I am I would be unhappy about anyone trying to rip me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, Detournement said: It matters in that it transfers wealth to the richest. So you have the double whammy of the government having less to spend on services and the richest having extra money to buy assets they can use as a source of rent. Until MMT is recognised we are stuck with the current nonsense monetary policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 It matters in that it transfers wealth to the richest. So you have the double whammy of the government having less to spend on services and the richest having extra money to buy assets they can use as a source of rent. Until MMT is recognised we are stuck with the current nonsense monetary policy.To be clear, what matters? The government paying for PFI contracts or paying interest on the national debt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: So if we can service nearly 2 trillion debt what does the small beer of a few PFI contracts matter? Guess it depends who it's being owed to. I think Ann Pettifor wrote a good book The Production of Money which discusses it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 At the time I thought the PFI contracts were terrible - and they probably are - but events since then in terms of bank bailouts, ongoing budget deficits and accumulated debt, means they hold less interest now. At least I saw a physical thing for that money - new schools. The point about national debt being a normal state of affairs is often mentioned on here. Tripling the national debt since 2008 for no appreciable benefit, and while services deteriorate, is a bit of a concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted July 11, 2019 Share Posted July 11, 2019 Anyway, when are they announcing the new PM? 23rd July. Not long then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Apparently we can print as much money as we like and the world won't make the pound worth any less. We have a great future before us! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 5 hours ago, welshbairn said: Apparently we can print as much money as we like and the world won't make the pound worth any less. You do realise you are describing what already happens? Money supply in the UK has increased by 1000% in 35 years with minimal impact on inflation or exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 7 hours ago, welshbairn said: Apparently we can print as much money as we like and the world won't make the pound worth any less. We have a great future before us! 2 hours ago, Detournement said: You do realise you are describing what already happens? Money supply in the UK has increased by 1000% in 35 years with minimal impact on inflation or exchange. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFjul3CP0X8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 The Government should pay everyone in the UK a Universal Basic Income of £100,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 The Government should pay everyone in the UK a Universal Basic Income of £100,000.Imagine the impact on the drug trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: The Government should pay everyone in the UK a Universal Basic Income of £100,000. It would be nice if that was what MMT is about but sadly it's not. It's just what idiots think. It is about the government taking control of money creation from the banks and using it to invest in productive industries and essential services and create full employment. Taxation is used to reduce demand preventing inflation and devaluation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 31 minutes ago, Detournement said: It would be nice if that was what MMT is about but sadly it's not. It's just what idiots think. It is about the government taking control of money creation from the banks and using it to invest in productive industries and essential services and create full employment. Taxation is used to reduce demand preventing inflation and devaluation. What happens if there is full employment in the South East and not in the rest of the country, or in some sectors but not in others? Not sure how you can control inflation and devaluation without doing harm to large chunks of the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Venom Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Andrew Neil to "interview" both Tory leadership hopefuls.What is even the point? It's not a public choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said: Andrew Neil to "interview" both Tory leadership hopefuls. What is even the point? It's not a public choice. Andrew has a vote though and he hasn't made his mind up yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 Andrew has a vote though and he hasn't made his mind up yet.Will we see him fawn over Boris? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 12, 2019 Share Posted July 12, 2019 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: What happens if there is full employment in the South East and not in the rest of the country, or in some sectors but not in others? Not sure how you can control inflation and devaluation without doing harm to large chunks of the economy. The government obviously needs to invest right across the country to ensure growth is spread around. That's what the Green New Deal is all about. Full employment has nothing to do with sectors. Inflation is already controlled by taxation. Using MMT taxation would be more progressive. The value is defined by the economic strength of the state that issues it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted July 12, 2019 Author Share Posted July 12, 2019 Will we see him fawn over Boris?On the contrary he hate Boris. His vote will go to the other c**t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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