Silvio Tattiescone Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Quote Some businesses have now learned how operate effectively under Covid-19 with social distancing with an entirely responsible approach to business. The guidance is quite loose, the legislation quite broad, so businesses can interpret themselves what is possible and what is safe to do in this environment. Tim AllanPresident, Scottish Chambers of Commerce Quote The head of the Scottish Chambers of Commerce has defended the decision by many small businesses, such as shops and coffee bars , to re-open despite the lockdown being extended. He said there were many businesses out there who were dismayed at the first minister's announcement of a further three weeks of restrictions. But he said it was unfair to say they are taking the law into their own hands. No you p***k, there's a lockdown. I hope that any coffee shop or cafe that re-opens is closed down immediately and permanently. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 12 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Who cares about the Tories importing a plane load of useless PPE from Turkey, when we can bang a few saucepans together at 8pm? Could we not bore a couple of holes in our saucepans for the eyes and donate our pans to our brave front line personnel as PPE? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I wonder if any of the fuckwits who were panic buying and stockpiling toilet roll and the like are looking back and wondering WTF they were thinking of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stellaboz Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 1 minute ago, Dee Man said: I wonder if any of the fuckwits who were panic buying and stockpiling toilet roll and the like are looking back and wondering WTF they were thinking of. Probably next to none of them. They've no doubt moved onto the next "in thing" whatever that is. Hopefully drinking dangerous levels of bleach. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bendan Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, Paco said: And I do find it extraordinary that people use the success of a measure like the lockdown to say it’s all an overreaction. The models that grabbed the headlines about half a million deaths were in the event of doing nothing, e.g. pursuing herd immunity. That we’re nowhere near those numbers is literally the result of the lockdown, not because this virus somehow isn’t really a problem. It’s as simple as adding two and two. I totally get the point that the lockdown has contained things to a manageable level, and I'd say there was no alternative to the blanket approach taken given we needed to buy some time. But we're seven weeks in now, and we ought to know more about where people are getting this, and who they are. With that information, a more nuanced approach should have developed - it's what is happening in other parts of north-western Europe. We are persisting with our one size fits all approach, and the only reasons can be: a) we don't actually have any information on where and how infections are taking place, and therefore have nothing to base any change of policy on; b) we do have useful information, but we haven't been able to come up with any workable strategy using it I don't think we can say the particular form and length of lockdown we chose - not simply 'the lockdown' - has been successful until that point, long in the future, when we know what the full consequences of it have been. If the virus were found to now be circulating almost entirely through connections with hospitals and care homes, the focus should be on breaking those chains and starting up activities that are not connected to them in some way. It's reasonable to say that not doing that, and instead continuing with a blanket lockdown, is an overreaction to the problem. But we're pretty much in the dark. Nobody in government is telling us where the virus is, or how it's being transferred, so we continue with the pretence that sitting on grass in a park is of a similar risk level to hanging around the entrance of the RIE, and we may, just may, be able to differentiate those two in week 8 of our lockdown. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I have a family member who was due to move back to England this month but the renters living in their home are now refusing to move out on the agreed date. There is a temporary ban on evictions so a family of 5 on modest earnings are stuck with nowhere to live and a mortgage to pay. A taste of socialism in practice where anyone who owns a house is a capitalist pig.So were they just buying a house from someone else, or did they own two houses and were renting one out? The latter is one of the least socialist politicies imaginable. I have a few pals who do it but they're all decent enough to feel an element of guilt over it. We're all thatchers's children, i suppose.If they're just buying from someone else then everyone just sits tight. No-one will be moving into their house either.So the moral of the tale - read some books before you start throwing about socialism as an insult. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Wonder what excuse he had for the trip? https://www.thenational.scot/news/18435372.tory-donor-fire-500-mile-trip-highlands-lockdown/?ref=twtrec 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staggie_93 Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, Staggie_93 said: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/may/07/uk-may-ditch-nhs-contact-tracing-app-for-apple-and-google-model The #ladz have had their development money so they can f**k off now. Sad times when Apple/Google are the more trusted option. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heedthebaa Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 26 minutes ago, Stellaboz said: Probably next to none of them. They've no doubt moved onto the next "in thing" whatever that is. Hopefully drinking dangerous levels of bleach. It’s compost 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 25 minutes ago, bendan said: I totally get the point that the lockdown has contained things to a manageable level, and I'd say there was no alternative to the blanket approach taken given we needed to buy some time. But we're seven weeks in now, and we ought to know more about where people are getting this, and who they are. With that information, a more nuanced approach should have developed - it's what is happening in other parts of north-western Europe. We are persisting with our one size fits all approach, and the only reasons can be: a) we don't actually have any information on where and how infections are taking place, and therefore have nothing to base any change of policy on; b) we do have useful information, but we haven't been able to come up with any workable strategy using it I don't think we can say the particular form and length of lockdown we chose - not simply 'the lockdown' - has been successful until that point, long in the future, when we know what the full consequences of it have been. If the virus were found to now be circulating almost entirely through connections with hospitals and care homes, the focus should be on breaking those chains and starting up activities that are not connected to them in some way. It's reasonable to say that not doing that, and instead continuing with a blanket lockdown, is an overreaction to the problem. But we're pretty much in the dark. Nobody in government is telling us where the virus is, or how it's being transferred, so we continue with the pretence that sitting on grass in a park is of a similar risk level to hanging around the entrance of the RIE, and we may, just may, be able to differentiate those two in week 8 of our lockdown. Exactly this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, bendan said: I totally get the point that the lockdown has contained things to a manageable level, and I'd say there was no alternative to the blanket approach taken given we needed to buy some time. But we're seven weeks in now, and we ought to know more about where people are getting this, and who they are. With that information, a more nuanced approach should have developed - it's what is happening in other parts of north-western Europe. We are persisting with our one size fits all approach, and the only reasons can be: a) we don't actually have any information on where and how infections are taking place, and therefore have nothing to base any change of policy on; b) we do have useful information, but we haven't been able to come up with any workable strategy using it I don't think we can say the particular form and length of lockdown we chose - not simply 'the lockdown' - has been successful until that point, long in the future, when we know what the full consequences of it have been. If the virus were found to now be circulating almost entirely through connections with hospitals and care homes, the focus should be on breaking those chains and starting up activities that are not connected to them in some way. It's reasonable to say that not doing that, and instead continuing with a blanket lockdown, is an overreaction to the problem. But we're pretty much in the dark. Nobody in government is telling us where the virus is, or how it's being transferred, so we continue with the pretence that sitting on grass in a park is of a similar risk level to hanging around the entrance of the RIE, and we may, just may, be able to differentiate those two in week 8 of our lockdown. I guess the point is that the r value is too high to be able to isolate the virus into geographical clusters that can be suppressed. In other words, the random variance of infections through the population is still too high to be able to differentiate sources of outbreaks. That's why the lockdown is still in place. one of the former Scotland CMOs reckoned he was told the r value in Scotland was about 0.7 and needed to go below 0.5 to be able to move into TTI with a view to mitigating the virus and lower than that to suppress it. We know that Care Homes are pretty much the single dominant vector now, but those are also contained spaces that it should be possible to shield (not that this is any use to residents in infected homes). If you use the NRS numbers to split out hospital deaths from the general populace vs those from care homes, you find the latter is basically flat over three weeks whereas the former is falling now. Assuming a logarithmic trend you are looking at another month before hospital deaths is down in low, double digits. So three more weeks to get the r value down to an acceptable level. Edited May 8, 2020 by renton 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pub car king Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Couple of things here. On the vitamin D theory has the recent good weather been a factor, had this happened in November would there be bodies stacking up in the streets. Easing of restrictions is going to be a suck it and see type scenario. The problem is human behaviour folk are fed up with it and that's one of the hardest things to manage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Is the r value not taken from the overall number of infections/ deaths in relation to the population level? If so is the r value not only relevant in context? Surely the r value in care homes and outwith such places is going to be completely different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 I guess the point is that the r value is too high to be able to isolate the virus into geographical clusters that can be suppressed. In other words, the random variance of infections through the population is still too high to be able to differentiate sources of outbreaks. That's why the lockdown is still in place. one of the former Scotland CMOs reckoned he was told the r value in Scotland was about 0.7 and needed to go below 0.5 to be able to move into TTI with a view to mitigating the virus and lower than that to suppress it. We know that Care Homes are pretty much the single dominant vector now, but those are also contained spaces that it should be possible to shield (not that this is any use to residents in infected homes). If you use the NRS numbers to split out hospital deaths from the general populace vs those from care homes, you find the latter is basically flat over three weeks whereas the former is falling now. Assuming a logarithmic trend you are looking at another month before it is down in low, double digits. So three more weeks to get the r value down to an acceptable level. Are we actually doing anything to help those in care homes? Genuine question.I know for a while they weren't being admitted to hospital but surely that's changed?Reading your assessment it seems like we're going to wait 3 weeks until everyone that's going to get it in a care home dies.After that we'll be down to below 0.5 - because it's done its worst in that setting, you either get it and live, or get it and die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 3 minutes ago, pandarilla said: Are we actually doing anything to help those in care homes? Genuine question. I know for a while they weren't being admitted to hospital but surely that's changed? Reading your assessment it seems like we're going to wait 3 weeks until everyone that's going to get it in a care home dies. After that we'll be down to below 0.5 - because it's done its worst in that setting, you either get it and live, or get it and die. I'd assume that they'd be looking at the r value in the general population seperate from that in care homes. The latter is a seperate system that you can isolate easily. Easing the lockdown should then be determined from the r value based on hospital deaths which as it falls should demonstrate that the r value in the general populace has fallen significantly Damned if I know what they are gonna do about the care homes, it's not easy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post madwullie Posted May 8, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 8, 2020 The point is, the government seem to have done f**k all with the lockdown. We should have infrastructure in place to test trace an isolate and then we could "safely" lift the restrictions knowing that there at least some measures in place to deal with the virus and hope to prevent a surge in infections and ultimately deaths. What has actually happened though, is that we've all become pissed off sitting inside our houses for 6 weeks while the government moved cards around the table, fanned about with statistics and spent the time either making a total fool of themselves or trying to spin statistics or meet arbitrary, useless-in-isolation self set targets. All the goodwill built up as people mucked in together is disappearing to be replaced with resentment and agitation. Now, everyone is getting pissed off and while we should really be extending the lockdown till these measures are in place (and trimming some more cash off the magic money tree to help those that need it) they're going to end up lifting it, and the only real measures we ars able to put in place to stop the (imo) inevitable second wave, is yet another form of lockdown (be it targeted or whatever). It's been mismanagement on a national scale, and a fucking disgrace tbh. 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superbigal Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 Some healthcare system in the Soviet Union. Charging along with another 10,000+ cases yesterday and only 98 deaths.Clearly they commies have all the gear stockpiled from the cold war and the odd nuclear plant going tits up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted May 8, 2020 Share Posted May 8, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, superbigal said: Some healthcare system in the Soviet Union. Charging along with another 10,000+ cases yesterday and only 98 deaths. Clearly they commies have all the gear stockpiled from the cold war and the odd nuclear plant going tits up. Most of those deaths will be associated with health care professionals getting chuck from windows. https://time.com/5832752/russia-coronavirus-doctors-deaths/ Edited May 8, 2020 by dirty dingus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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