Billy Jean King Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Unless I’ve misunderstood the potential effects of the vaccine, I’m struggling to see why we would ever need any kind of restrictions once all adults have been vaccinated. Even allowing for the worst case scenario of a frankly crazy figure of 20% choosing not to be vaccinated, future hospitalisation figures would be 80% less than at present, even if infection rates are similar to now. The NHS would be in no danger of being overwhelmed therefore no need for any restrictions at all?I agree but every "boffin" wheeled out seems to be trotting out the "not a magic. bullet" lineI think this is mostly to curb those already vaccinated from breaking ranks. I also think it's partly down to the time it's going to take to get everyone over 18 vaccinated. September is that goal so until then it looks like this will be the mood music. After every adult has been vaccinated then absolutely masking and SD surely has to go. I anticipate it will be just those until that stage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, 101 said: Because there are people who won't take the vaccine for personal views or religious beliefs. Obviously we all hope that number is as low as possible but some opinion polls have it as high as 20%. That 20% might not be a problem if it's spread right through the UK but if it's concentrated in a particular region then it could still pose a threat to the health care system. They are round the corner anyway if there is one thing we can be sure of it won't be 100 years until the next pandemic. We have don't nothing to stop the virus entering humans since 2019, wet markets still exists and the market for low cost chicken mean we or the US could be the next epicenter. See in this world of social distancing forever to protect 20% of people (who are vaccine deniers), how do we procreate? Edited January 20, 2021 by The Moonster 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Moonster said: See in this world of social distancing forever to protect 20% of people (who are vaccine deniers), how do we procreate? I don't think social distancing will last forever and have never said as much. I think the system of contact tracers should remain to stop vaccine refusers having an effect on the rest of us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Moonster said: See in this world of social distancing forever to protect 20% of people (who are vaccine deniers), how do we procreate? Devine miracle? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael W Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 58 minutes ago, Left Back said: Interesting Q&A with Vallance on Sky this morning. With hindsight reckons they should have locked down harder and faster in March. He also said he wishes (but he can’t see how anyone can have predicted this was necessary) they’d recommended closing the borders last January. He reckons by March it was too late and wouldn’t have made any difference. I have no doubt there are a number of them utterly haunted by their previous comments and positions on this matter. The last bit I don't agree with. Even locking down a week before we did would've made a difference as we'd have curbed the spread at least partially. Then you have the likes of letting Rangers play Bayer Leverkusen and Liverpool play Atletico Madrid with 50k fans in attendance at each a week before we locked down. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 11 minutes ago, Left Back said: If you really wanted to force their hand you could look at putting restrictions on other things if you haven't been vaccinated (large indoor gatherings etc.). no idea how you could enforce it though. Not sure if I agree with it morally either. I'm not sure how I feel about that either - or how particularly workable it will be with the uncompromising drive for things to be back to normal. Getting on a plane is different though. If we get everything down to a manageable level and open up a bit fucking right I'd be expecting people coming here to have proof of vaccination, so it stands to reason we should have to show similar if travelling ourselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madwullie Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 10 minutes ago, The Moonster said: See in this world of social distancing forever to protect 20% of people (who are vaccine deniers), how do we procreate? Anal only for anti-vaxxers. No kissing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 7 minutes ago, 101 said: I don't think social distancing will last forever and have never said as much. I think the system of contact tracers should remain to stop vaccine refusers having an effect on the rest of us. The system of contact tracing has been excellent right enough, should continue to waste a few more billion on it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Just now, The Moonster said: The system of contact tracing has been excellent right enough, should continue to waste a few more billion on it. I agree the people of England should be particularly concerned, if you and your English tax payers wish to continue throwing money at call centers then by all means go for it. The Scottish system seems to be somewhat more effective although falls at the final hurdle of people not typing the code into the app. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Anal only for anti-vaxxers. No kissing. Rewarding bad behaviour never a good plan [emoji23] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 21 minutes ago, Left Back said: If you really wanted to force their hand you could look at putting restrictions on other things if you haven't been vaccinated (large indoor gatherings etc.). no idea how you could enforce it though. Not sure if I agree with it morally either. I think it could be morally justified to protect people who can't take the vaccine for medical reasons. Shouldn't be an issue if we hit herd immunity, except for maybe foreign travel if other countries are lagging behind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 16 minutes ago, 101 said: I don't think social distancing will last forever and have never said as much. I think the system of contact tracers should remain to stop vaccine refusers having an effect on the rest of us. Even if the contact tracing and isolation only applied to those unvaccinated I can't see how this would work. Unless you are advocating having the police having the power to stop people that are out and check their vaccination & isolation status, in which case there is a special place right at the bottom of a bin in the middle of Pyongyang for this idea. I'm really not at all concerned about anti-vaxxers tbh. They will be a small percentage, and the risk to me (and anyone else who has been vaccinated) from them is pretty much non-existant. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, 101 said: I agree the people of England should be particularly concerned, if you and your English tax payers wish to continue throwing money at call centers then by all means go for it. The Scottish system seems to be somewhat more effective although falls at the final hurdle of people not typing the code into the app. Yes the Scottish system has been a roaring success, which is why we are now entering what feels like our 400th week of a blanket national lockdown. Why does someone who has been vaccinated need further protection from the virus? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 minute ago, welshbairn said: I think it could be morally justified to protect people who can't take the vaccine for medical reasons. Shouldn't be an issue if we hit herd immunity, except for maybe foreign travel if other countries are lagging behind. You'd need to be careful that you don't exclude them from activities where they assume essentially all the risk. It doesn't affect me but I wouldn't be too keen on actively banning people from going to a concert, for example, on the basis that they have a medical condition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiG Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 (edited) This statement is a couple of days old so I may have missed it in this gargantuan thread (apologies if so) but this sounds slightly concerning though I guess it's not overly surprising? Edited January 20, 2021 by RiG 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshmallo Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 1 hour ago, 101 said: Qué? Hadn't really noticed you before till middle of 2020 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: You'd need to be careful that you don't exclude them from activities where they assume essentially all the risk. It doesn't affect me but I wouldn't be too keen on actively banning people from going to a concert, for example, on the basis that they have a medical condition. Agreed, I was replying to someone who was doubtful about the morality of banning refuseniks, suggesting it could be justified to protect those with no choice, so they could safely attend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Yes the Scottish system has been a roaring success, which is why we are now entering what feels like our 400th week of a blanket national lockdown. Why does someone who has been vaccinated need further protection from the virus? Two arguments will be used against it. retransmission (not strictly them needing further protection) and efficacy. It's possible retransmission won't be a concern. This will possibly be known in the next few weeks/months. Efficacy isn't going away and is why we need herd immunity to negate it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 Worryingly not going so well in Israel with vaccinations as previously thought, while early results of the two-dose regimen are promising, they've also being dong just single doses, and they are concerning. These are only very early preliminary studies, but Sky suggest UK Gov looking closely at them, as probably every other country is doing. https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-uk-to-look-very-carefully-at-vaccine-dosing-after-concerns-raised-over-level-of-protection-12193205 Quote Professor Ran Balicer, who works for the largest health care provider in Israel and who is an adviser to the World Health Organisation, told Sky News there was "no difference" between infections of vaccinated and unvaccinated people until 14 days after a Pfizer jab. But he added that, on day 14 after vaccination, "a drop of 33% in positivity was witnessed in the vaccinated group and not in the unvaccinated". Also bit in the Guardian about cases rising in Israel despite being in lockdown & in midst of vaccinating. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/19/single-covid-vaccine-dose-in-israel-less-effective-than-we-hoped It feels like we're all in a big giant experiment. And we've got everything from people denying it exists and is a worldwide conspiracy by the rich elite, people that know it exists but think only the old & vulnerable should be staying at home and put their fingers in their ears and continue to shout that it'll be fine by Spring, to doctors desperate to show the reality inside their hospitals where they are struggling despite lots of surge capacity in ICU, and people who have been ultra careful and haven't been outside their own house for over 10 months, despite being neither old nor vulnerable. Oh and not forgetting the tennis players and their partners who've been flown into Australia for the Open (with first round losers earning £55k) and after some positive covid tests are moaning at being kept in quarantine in their hotels free of charge and all meals provided, with Bernard Tomic's girlfriend complaining she has to wash her own hair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moomintroll Posted January 20, 2021 Share Posted January 20, 2021 42 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: Devine miracle? Lets leave Sydney out of this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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