Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Hardly. Printing off a sheet for each jabee at the GP's and signing them would not require an extra back office. Little admin change to the bumf handed out now with the jag.

Yes, this is true, however it's not happening at the moment, so is every single person who wants a holiday in the future then expected to phone down or turn up  at their GP's surgery in order to get a certificate and is there even any sort of infrastructure in place for this ??

I'd also think that if it was just a printed sheet with a random signature that it would be open to forgeries and black marketeering.

As I say, Saga may be the first but I'd doubt if they'll be the last and this just throws all future plans of people right up in the air, over and above the known knowns that we already have with the virus as we stand.

 

[s_dog]

58 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Really sad story in the papers of a guy from dorset who was required to work at an anti-covid protest, has caught covid as a result of it and is now in hospital. Kinda sums up that the police essentially can’t really refuse to go and deal with something and have been given pretty much no protection. Front line health workers and the very vulnerable should undoubtedly be front of the line but there has to be consideration to other emergency services. I know a lot of police officers who are carers for elderly relatives etc and its causing a lot of anguish as they see every day at work as a risk of transmitting the virus to their family. 

Once the priority groups are done there should be a move to allow police, teachers, supermarket workers etc to get their vaccinations before opening it up to the general population. In saying that, there's apparently people even jumping in front of the priority groups to grab their vaccines. Not sure if it's just a small number & not widespread, but I have heard of a couple. It is made very clear when booking a test that you have to be part of the core priority groups they are currently vaccinating, and we've also had work emails that specifically state if you are not patient-facing, unless your roles requires you to have essential & regular interactions with other workers who are, you'll have will have to wait until it's available for their age group.  

[welshbairn]

Just now, WATTOO said:

Yes, this is true, however it's not happening at the moment, so is every single person who wants a holiday in the future then expected to phone down or turn up  at their GP's surgery in order to get a certificate and is there even any sort of infrastructure in place for this ??

I'd also think that if it was just a printed sheet with a random signature that it would be open to forgeries and black marketeering.

As I say, Saga may be the first but I'd doubt if they'll be the last and this just throws all future plans of people right up in the air, over and above the known knowns that we already have with the virus as we stand.

 

I'm expecting they'll give something out after the second jag, it's all stored on individual medical records and practice records anyway so it wouldn't be a big deal.

[Guest]

Just now, welshbairn said:

I'm expecting they'll give something out after the second jag, it's all stored on individual medical records and practice records anyway so it wouldn't be a big deal.

Hopefully it's as simple, consistent and uniformed then and hopefully so are the vaccinations as it would create a rather nasty environment if people's ability to go on a holiday was determined by their postcode.

The only other thing I'd question is why are vaccinations so important when it's not yet been proven that a vaccination prevents transmission ?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

17 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Hardly. Printing off a sheet for each jabee at the GP's and signing them would not require an extra back office. Little admin change to the bumf handed out now with the jag.

Just discussing that with the wife, usually a request for a letter takes up the 10min appointment time plus a charge for the letter. That said I suggested a standard letter which could be signed once checked for the patient would cut down on that, a wee lightbulb went off. Sorted. 

6 minutes ago, s_dog said:

Once the priority groups are done there should be a move to allow police, teachers, supermarket workers etc to get their vaccinations before opening it up to the general population. In saying that, there's apparently people even jumping in front of the priority groups to grab their vaccines. Not sure if it's just a small number & not widespread, but I have heard of a couple. It is made very clear when booking a test that you have to be part of the core priority groups they are currently vaccinating, and we've also had work emails that specifically state if you are not patient-facing, unless your roles requires you to have essential & regular interactions with other workers who are, you'll have will have to wait until it's available for their age group.  

Im fortunate that i qualify for a vaccination as a carer for a disabled person, but I agree that especially to protect the vulnerable people that rely on the job types you’ve listed above its important to get them vaccinated asap. 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, WATTOO said:

Hopefully it's as simple, consistent and uniformed then and hopefully so are the vaccinations as it would create a rather nasty environment if people's ability to go on a holiday was determined by their postcode.

The only other thing I'd question is why are vaccinations so important when it's not yet been proven that a vaccination prevents transmission ?

I think the consensus is that if it doesn't 100% prevent transmission it will significantly reduce it, and the viral load. I prefer to be optimistic. 

[Erih Shtrep]

3 hours ago, TheScarf said:

A fire has broken out in a vaccine manufacturing factory in India.

Warned  @Tynierose about this when he emptied @FireStarter.    

As Kylie once said sometimes it's better the arsonist you know.  

[welshbairn]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im fortunate that i qualify for a vaccination as a carer for a disabled person, but I agree that especially to protect the vulnerable people that rely on the job types you’ve listed above its important to get them vaccinated asap. 

Have you already had yours? I'm in the same boat but was told I'd have to wait till all the over 65s are done. However it should be a bit quicker as the SG have just said they'll be prioritising those on the shielded list, so mid Feb.

[Guest]

27 minutes ago, virginton said:

El Dorado is the tonic wine of choice on the Clyde Riviera

Not according to this Greenock butcher.

https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14018760.buckfast-flavoured-sausages-popular-with-inverclyde-butcherrsquos-customers/

[Guest]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I think the consensus is that if it doesn't 100% prevent transmission it will significantly reduce it, and the viral load. I prefer to be optimistic. 

Again, I don't want to be misunderstood here, however the whole basis of my argument and indeed annoyance, is that the ability to be vaccinated is outwith the control of the population.

We can only be vaccinated once invited to come forward, so Yes, by all means those who refuse should potentially pay for that refusal if they have no grounds for said refusal, however for those who haven't been given the option I find it shocking that they could be potentially excluded from certain activities through no fault of their own.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

Have you already had yours? I'm in the same boat but was told I'd have to wait till all the over 65s are done. However it should be a bit quicker as the SG have just said they'll be prioritising those on the shielded list, so mid Feb.

Im getting it a week today, arranged via the social work, its a relief. Encourage any posters who are carers to contact their adult SWD teams as they are processing these appointments. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Yflab said:

Not according to this Greenock butcher.

https://www.greenocktelegraph.co.uk/news/14018760.buckfast-flavoured-sausages-popular-with-inverclyde-butcherrsquos-customers/

El Dorado, El Dorado,Wine, Wine, Wine.

Four Crown, Four Crown, far (for) too dear !!

We're awe goin tae Fine Fare, You get the cheapest Wine there, na,na.na,na, na,na,na,na.

[welshbairn]

Just now, WATTOO said:

Again, I don't want to be misunderstood here, however the whole basis of my argument and indeed annoyance, is that the ability to be vaccinated is outwith the control of the population.

We can only be vaccinated once invited to come forward, so Yes, by all means those who refuse should potentially pay for that refusal if they have no grounds for said refusal, however for those who haven't been given the option I find it shocking that they could be potentially excluded from certain activities through no fault of their own.

Do you think that everyone should have to stay at home till everyone has been vaccinated, out of fairness? If vaccination allows travel to open up I'm all in favour, even if some of us have to wait a bit longer.

[Dunning1874]

Regarding the 'back to normal' and environmental discussions of a few hours/20 pages ago, any notion that the necessary decisions required to deal with climate change overlap with or justify an extension of the current restrictions on individual freedoms can get in the bin. Stopping people being able to live as they did in 2019 in terms of mixing socially, recreation and even foreign travel (outwith the obscenely rich who fly constantly) isn't what's needed to address climate change and wouldn't be a remotely acceptable way for a government to act.

In the extremely unlikely event that governments take the action needed to stop the planet turning into a ball of fire over the next few decades there will be significant changes to our lives with the global economy necessarily being restructured, but targeting individual lifestyles isn't going to achieve anything. Only regulations and laws that drastically overhaul entire industries and governmental practices are going to make a difference.

There is a genuine Covid-related point in discussions of environmental policy, but focusing exclusively on wet markets and regulation of them misses the point. While it's not what happened in this thread, there's an undeniable undercurrent in general media discussion of 'if those Asians were more responsible like us this would never have happened, it's all their fault' and we just need them to adopt Western farming practices and regulations. While there are specific issues with China, this isn't remotely the case.

We know that Covid originated in bats and found itself in a wet market. We have no idea it actually transferred to humans through someone eating a bat though. It could just have easily been bats passing the disease to another animal which humans consumed.  Wild bats passing overhead transmitting to farmed pigs was how the Nipah virus infected humans rather than any kind of wet market, so while there are obviously specific issues with wet markets, wild animals and a conversation to be had about meat consumption in general, the argument that this is down to a specific type of meat consumption or practice doesn't stand up when it's happened with farmed animals as well.

There's a wild bat population in daily contact with humans in Wuhan because of deforestation and their natural habitat disappearing. Same as the wild bats who appeared over the pig farms in Malaysia bringing Nipah, same as the wild bats bringing Ebola in Guinea, same with SARS before it, MERS was also passed to camels by migrating bats passing overhead. When you remove bats' natural habitat the stress it places on them weakens them and makes them more susceptible to shedding a virus. Put that in tandem with humans being close to their habitat in cleared forest areas and some bat populations being forced to look for new habitats and travel over a wide area coming into contact with humans, you're asking for zoonotic spillover.

That's where the environment ànd pandemics cross over and that's the recipe for different coronaviruses making the leap again. If you're looking for an obvious environmental change out this, immediately halting deforestation, particularly in SE Asia, and indeed reforestation of many of these areas is not only going to have an environmental benefit by itself but will help prevent further pandemics again.

Drastic action like that against specific industries to prevent ever getting to this stage has to be a better policy both environmentally and economically than letting another virus spill over and having to shut every other sector of the economy at once to stop the spread. However that would require an acknowledgement that these things are entirely in every government's control as Western governments could act on companies operating in their countries driving and profiting from deforestation, with much of that being driven by demand for palm and beef, rather than it all being China's fault.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Dunning1874

[s_dog]

57 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

That utter dick of a man Ross allowed free reign on BBC every single day to make random claims about vaccination targets being missed, without his allegations being properly scrutinised. 

Didn't see it nor the response, but apparently the misinformation by the Tories that the Scot Gov are sitting on supplies and failing to get them rolled-out to where needed was answered by STV yesterday, but the BBC are still happy to let Ross continue to pursue it. In an ideal world all the politicians would be working together to try and best respond to this crisis, and yes there does need to be scrutiny of decisions that are made. But this petty & continual criticising and questioning of anything & everything the Scot Gov does by the Tories in particular, especially in relation to vaccinations borders on undermining their actions. It's not like there is any political or health benefit to the Scot Gov sitting on supplies, does anyone honestly believe they'd do that to try and score some cheap political point to the UK Gov, particularly as their approval ratings are so high and there's no need for it even in the pathetic political minds of some people.

 

 

[Guest]

Just now, welshbairn said:

Do you think that everyone should have to stay at home till everyone has been vaccinated, out of fairness? If vaccination allows travel to open up I'm all in favour, even if some of us have to wait a bit longer.

I think if Holiday companies, Restaurant chains, Pub chains, Concert organisers etc, etc, take the same attitude, then people "excluded" might not exactly be ecstatic about it..........

"Civil unrest" mark 2

[HibsFan]

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

[s_dog]

59 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't know about England, but the Scottish government's current plan would see everyone in all vulnerable categories (right down to over 50s) given both doses by the end of May.

Does it state anywhere that it's for both doses? Because the numbers for being vaccinated by for example, over 70's by mid-Feb definitely do not include two doses. There are lots of NHS staff & now social care staff who've already been vaccinated and they aim to complete them by the end of the month, but there's only a very small number of them who have their second dose. I know someone who booked their jag a couple of weeks ago and they also booked their second dose at the same time (for 12 weeks time), so like most who are getting them right now, won't be fully vaccinated until end of April.

Edited January 21, 2021 by s_dog

[Sergeant Wilson]

2 hours ago, invergowrie arab said:

I went to a huge gay club in Berlin and there was a floor like this. Everyone seemed  to be enjoying themselves 

Its good the huge gays have somewhere to go, unlike  this poor chap.

1 hour ago, Thereisalight.. said:

I see there’s talk that Furlough will be extended beyond April. Another sign that they’re in no great hurry to lift restrictions. Whilst folk are being paid to sit on their fat arses watching Netflix there won’t be any clamour to return to normal life (pre March 2020). Honestly can’t believe that people will still be happy to exist rather than live when the most vulnerable and elderly will or at least should have been vaccinated by then.

Absolutely deflated that it’s been weeks/months now since I was last allowed to go out beyond South Ayrshire and there’s no sign of that changing any time soon 

 

[Distant Doonhamer]

2 minutes ago, HibsFan said:

Guess who's back with another zero COVID article?

Of course, she refuses to set out what the plan for zero COVID actually entails:

"What does this mean for all of us now? While scientists continue to assemble the data and advise governments on how best to proceed, we should each be focusing on how to avoid getting the virus and passing it on to others, and learning sustainable ways to live under restrictions for the dark winter months ahead. Quite simply: avoid indoor, poorly ventilated and crowded settings; don’t go into other people’s homes; keep your distance; meet outside; wear face coverings on public transport and in shops; and err on the side of caution."

That isn't a plan for zero COVID, that's just pretty obvious advice for the individual.

Yep. It's almost like she's enjoying her time in the spotlight. Every time the fridge door opens she probably feels compelled to do a turn.