Guest SJP79 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 3 minutes ago, johnnydun said: This will need a 11-1 Premier league vote in favour. I just can't see it. What is more likely is the season is ended now, with trophies and money handed out and no relegation or promotion. Technically not null and voiding it but concluding it. Cant hand out Trophies if you do that. Its either null in void or it isnt, lawyers would have a field day if they did. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, R.R.FC said: The fact you have had to go back to 17 years to find an example and it is only 13 point swing (over 10 games) which would still leave United top and the two other leagues level on points doesn’t really give you as strong an argument as you think. I’ve already said I don’t agree with 1 up, 1 down in the current situation. I think the least unfair is 2 up and no relegation. We just have to agree to disagree. I find it impossible to believe you would think the same if your club was in Dundee United’s shoes but I understand your position given who you support. Plenty more examples if you want; Man United had an 11 point lead over Arsenal with 9 to play. Arsenal won the league 97/98. Mid February 2017 St. Mirren (10th) were 12 points behind both Raith (in 8th) and Dumbarton (in 7th) with 12 games to go. St Mirren ended up above you both. Stirling Albion were 8 points off Alloa in top spot with 6 games to play in 2009-10 , tier 3, they went top with 2 games to play and won the title. Just highlighting that nobody has earned or deserves to be promoted or relegated at this stage. Yeah, I guess we just disagree. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Blue1870 said: Lol. 5 points is nothing. You are absolutely right we have been pants but have you been at all the stranraer matches. Obviously no. So you are basically saying just because our results have been poor fir 27 games we couldn't suddenly pic up some good results. Wow. I have been watching football a long time. Things change and Stranraer sides have done this sort of thing before. We actually won a league in 1998 from second bottom we won 12 out of 14 to take the title. Obviously this is a poorer side but to right off a teams chance to survive is bizarre. If you are playing golf and your 6 down with 7 to play. You don't walk in. You fight until its over. I'm not saying anything other than casually passing off an 8 point gap as 'not much' given your horrendous form for the majority of the season is ridiculous. You'd be looking at having to win about 7 of the last 9 to stay up - you've won 2 all season. Even for the top teams putting any run of wins together in this league is a challenge, there has been nothing to suggest Stranraer are capable of that. I would say regardless of all that it's still not fair to relegate anyone until they are technically relegated. But then that just goes back to the overall debate of how to finish the season. Edited April 13, 2020 by Diamonds are Forever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, SJP79 said: Cant hand out Trophies if you do that. Says who? If you can restructure to include 2 teams in another division the you can restructure to have no relegation or promotion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SJP79 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, johnnydun said: Says who? If you can restructure to include 2 teams in another division the you can restructure to have no relegation or promotion. Thats not restructure though, its null in void 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, SJP79 said: Thats not restructure though, its null in void Not if your awarding titles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raith1974 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 7 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Plenty more examples if you want; Man United had an 11 point lead over Arsenal with 9 to play. Arsenal won the league 97/98. Mid February 2017 St. Mirren (10th) were 12 points behind both Raith (in 8th) and Dumbarton (in 7th) with 12 games to go. St Mirren ended up above you both. Stirling Albion were 8 points off Alloa in top spot with 6 games to play in 2009-10 , tier 3, they went top with 2 games to play and won the title. Just highlighting that nobody has earned or deserves to be promoted or relegated at this stage. Yeah, I guess we just disagree. In terms of St Mirren you'll remember they signed a brand new team in the January and on the form they had would have won the league with that team. Every team now have what they have no new players. Current form would suggest that Stranraer would not get themselves out of relegation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SJP79 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Not if your awarding titles. So your going to award Titles then tell teams your not going up ? The clubs would have to vote for that also ? Edited April 13, 2020 by SJP79 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvz2000 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, ribzanelli said: Ridiculous comparison but I’ll indulge you. If a global catastrophe were to occur in the 7th second of an Olympic semi final and one runner was barely out the blocks I’d be quite confident in saying that on the evidence provided they probably weren’t about to suddenly catch up. Not possible Of course it is , pay out monies now and finish the league when possible even if it is some months away , I realise there will need to be calculations done re how much money clubs get but if what I read is correct we are not talking huge amounts as money has been paid in instalments , next season if there is one can be adjusted whatever way to allow for late finish of this season . I just can’t see why anyone would think that finishing the season early is worth considering . 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, Blue1870 said: Lol. 5 points is nothing. You are absolutely right we have been pants but have you been at all the stranraer matches. Obviously no. So you are basically saying just because our results have been poor fir 27 games we couldn't suddenly pic up some good results. Wow. I have been watching football a long time. Things change and Stranraer sides have done this sort of thing before. We actually won a league in 1998 from second bottom we won 12 out of 14 to take the title. Obviously this is a poorer side but to right off a teams chance to survive is bizarre. If you are playing golf and your 6 down with 7 to play. You don't walk in. You fight until its over. Of course you fight on, if you can. However if a global catastrophe occurs whilst on the 12th tee and there is no time to finish the tie then letting the guy annihilating you advance seems fair. If a day gets lost to thunderstorms, golf is sometimes concluded over 54 holes. This is unprecedented times which require unprecedented solutions. The unprecedented decision to call the season null and void ignores 3/4 of a season of actual evidence on the basis of what might happen over the remaining 1/4 of a season. The unprecedented decision of stopping now and invoking promotion/relegation accounts for that actual evidence and ignores the what’s, ifs and maybes. It’s a bit like the civil/criminal trial distinction that requires balance of probabilities versus no doubt. To claim one outcome is vastly fairer than the other is disingenuous in the extreme. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 2 minutes ago, SJP79 said: So your going to award Titles then tell teams your not going up ? Surley the clubs would have to vote for that also ? Yes you would need to have a vote. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, kvz2000 said: Of course it is , pay out monies now and finish the league when possible even if it is some months away , I realise there will need to be calculations done re how much money clubs get but if what I read is correct we are not talking huge amounts as money has been paid in instalments , next season if there is one can be adjusted whatever way to allow for late finish of this season . I just can’t see why anyone would think that finishing the season early is worth considering . I don’t disagree with you but I don’t think the season will be restarted so my argument is simply that in a binary choice of null and void versus promotion/relegation there is nothing between them as somebody benefits and somebody is disadvantaged. In that binary choice I prefer to use 3/4 of a season of actual evidence, you prefer to use 1/4 season of yeah buts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 20 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Plenty more examples if you want; Man United had an 11 point lead over Arsenal with 9 to play. Arsenal won the league 97/98. Mid February 2017 St. Mirren (10th) were 12 points behind both Raith (in 8th) and Dumbarton (in 7th) with 12 games to go. St Mirren ended up above you both. Stirling Albion were 8 points off Alloa in top spot with 6 games to play in 2009-10 , tier 3, they went top with 2 games to play and won the title. Just highlighting that nobody has earned or deserves to be promoted or relegated at this stage. Yeah, I guess we just disagree. Surely the other side could just quote the millions of times a team didn’t throw away a huge lead or a team miles from safety didn’t make a miraculous comeback? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kvz2000 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 52 minutes ago, raith1974 said: No you are so wrong. The league has not been abandoned, its currently suspended. Clubs are/were voting to basically agree to end the season now, not abandon it. Calling the season now means season ended and league positions stand resulting in promotion and relegation. What we have won this season is more points than any other club, meaning we are top and deserve, just like Dundee Utd and Cove to be promoted. Absolute rubbish , the vote itself has no credibility as only one option put forward with a cash now incentive to vote yes , time will show what a farce the SPFL handling has been and some will lose their jobs .... if you do get awarded the title it will always be classes as a tainted title and not a true championship win ..... why why why are you all only looking at the one option ie ending the season early 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 minutes ago, ribzanelli said: I don’t disagree with you but I don’t think the season will be restarted so my argument is simply that in a binary choice of null and void versus promotion/relegation there is nothing between them as somebody benefits and somebody is disadvantaged. In that binary choice I prefer to use 3/4 of a season of actual evidence, you prefer to use 1/4 season of yeah buts. Could easily just say that Raith are only 1 point ahead of Falkirk but there are 24 points to play for. 24 >>> 1 therefore the uncertainty of that last quarter is much greater than the certainty form the first 3. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, ribzanelli said: Surely the other side could just quote the millions of times a team didn’t throw away a huge lead or a team miles from safety didn’t make a miraculous comeback? But your argument is that teams currently deserve promotion and relegation. I am just putting your argument to bed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SJP79 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 6 minutes ago, johnnydun said: Yes you would need to have a vote. Then it aint happening. Big clubs need to realise restructure is the only way 14-10-10-10, 2 up from every league , Brora and Kelty up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnydun Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Just now, SJP79 said: Then it aint happening. Big clubs need to realise restructure is the only way 14-10-10-10, 2 up from every league , Brora and Kelty up 11-1 needed in the Prem. Can't see it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AL-FFC Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, Gordon EF said: Could easily just say that Raith are only 1 point ahead of Falkirk but there are 24 points to play for. 24 >>> 1 therefore the uncertainty of that last quarter is much greater than the certainty form the first 3. They only want the league done and dusted now before their arse collapses and they end up fourth, you can understand why 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest SJP79 Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 minute ago, johnnydun said: 11-1 needed in the Prem. Can't see it. If the alternative is null in void i can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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